“At Fifa, almost everyone is eligible”

Mr. Zwanziger, former CIA employees apparently spied on you on behalf of Qatar.

Yes, and guess what? I did not notice anything. That’s the perfidious thing about it all. Because as soon as you notice something, you can defend yourself. For a while, as a lawyer, I had a lot to do with Stasi files that revealed state surveillance of GDR citizens. The same pattern was found there. This can go so far that not even the so-called spy knows about his role – perhaps a family member is questioned by a work colleague and thus involuntarily reveals information.

How do you think it was with you?

When I first heard about the alleged spying a few months ago, I naturally wondered who it might have been. I can exclude my family, I’m quite sure of that. Then we come to the football officials: The case with Fifa is clear – almost everyone I dealt with at the time could be considered. When I was elected to the Executive Committee in 2011, the majority of the members who had shortly before agreed to hosting the 2022 World Cup were still there. Apart from me, the only new member on the Executive Committee was US President Sunil Gulati. Gulati is also said to have been spied on.

You were particularly critical of Qatar and the awarding of the World Cup to the Gulf state. In a radio interview you once described Qatar as “football’s cancer”. You can continue to do so based on a court ruling, and a lawsuit brought by Qatar was dismissed.

And guess what? The Düsseldorf Regional Court passed its verdict on April 19, 2016. Shortly thereafter, on April 21, 2016, Fifa President Gianni Infantino was in Qatar. For the return flight, the sheikh provided him with a private plane so that Infantino would not miss the meeting with the federal prosecutor at the time, Michael Lauber. It may all be a coincidence, but this Qatar – Fifa – Swiss Attorney General’s office stinks to high heaven. Do you remember the “Summer Fairy Tale” case? With this flow of money in the run-up to the 2006 World Cup in Germany, there was only one beneficiary: Mohammed bin Hammam, the powerful football official from Qatar. And what does the Swiss Attorney General do? She steadfastly refuses to institute criminal proceedings against Bin Hammam. Instead, she investigated for years against irreproachable German football officials like me, only to let the proceedings later become statute-barred.

You are still not on good terms with the federal prosecutor.

If you want to hear plain text: there are some irresponsible string pullers from Fifa and Qatar who are abusing their office. And I can also give you the names: Cédric Remund and Olivier Thormann, who today presides over the Appeals Chamber of the Federal Criminal Court. . .

. . . I have to point out the presumption of innocence, otherwise we both risk being sued. . .

. . . my allegations are all supported by files and documents, so I’m not worried about that.

Let’s get back to the “Merciless” project, in which you were an important target. The employees of Global Risk Advisors are said to have set up a network of informers on five continents in order to “neutralize” you. Didn’t you really notice anything?

Of course, in hindsight, you think about who might have questioned you or influenced you. After Fifa, we quickly end up with the German Football Association, the DFB. In the case of one senior leader, I am almost certain that they organized Qatar’s interests. I’m not making this name public for the time being, I’ll save that for later.

The operation was successful – you have scaled back criticism of Qatar, instead you have been included in a commission that was supposed to promote human rights in the Gulf state.

Yes, of course. When it became clear during my tenure at Fifa that the composition of the Executive Committee at the time was not expected to correct the World Cup award, I tried, also on behalf of President Joseph Blatter, to at least help to improve the human rights situation.

Have you considered filing a lawsuit against Qatar for banned intelligence?

(Zwanziger laughs) You mean to annoy the Swiss federal prosecutor’s office? They should have been investigating from the office long ago. For my part, I calmly examine a criminal complaint, not only in Switzerland, but also in Germany.

Did you think the World Cup organizers would be capable of such a perfidious approach?

Qatar’s actions fit perfectly with their strategy. These are smart people, I’ve never made the mistake of underestimating them. The Sheikh wanted to bring the World Cup to Qatar at any cost. This is not easy when you submit the dossier with the lowest rating of all applicants. So you had to use all means to win the election in a first step, and at least against a competitor like the USA. Once this first step has been taken, it is not far to the second step: to prevent the country from being denied the World Cup again at all costs. And where did the danger come from? First and foremost from us few critics in Fifa. So my spying and that of my American colleague Gulati makes perfect sense. But what annoys me much more: the inaction of the football officials.

What do you mean?

According to the research by Swiss television SRF at the latest, Fifa and its ethics committee should pull out all the stops to get to the bottom of the suspicion that their own members have been spied on. But as we all know, nothing can be expected from this site. President Infantino has meanwhile moved his residence to Qatar and has thus made himself hostage to those in power there. But there’s more to come. Even the DFB has so far not commented on the scandalous events. But whoever remains silent makes himself complicit. In this circle of “silent lambs” we can gladly add the Office of the Attorney General – after all, as far as I know, Fifa’s headquarters are still in Zurich.

The Attorney General reports that in the case of espionage, they generally do not comment on any proceedings or preliminary investigations.

That fits perfectly into the picture: They don’t know what they’re doing.

Mr. Zwanziger, what are you doing on November 20th? Are you invited to the World Cup by Qatar or by FIFA?

(Zwanziger laughs) No, I’m not invited. But I am and will always be a football fan. So I will watch a lot of games on TV. It’s not the players’ or the fans’ fault that in 2010 some corrupt football officials chose an organizer who, although organizing the games, could never do justice to the social and societal character of this event.