Thursday October 21, 2021
Brantner on dealing with Poland
“EU must act, otherwise it will make itself ridiculous”
At today’s EU summit, the abolition of the independent judiciary in Poland threatens to become a major issue. Green European politician Franziska Brantner, who is also involved in the Ampel coalition negotiations, calls for “clear signals” to be sent to the Polish government – including with sanctions. The member of the Bundestag, who was elected as a direct candidate in Heidelberg, also explains how the traffic light coalition could repair the relationship with Eastern Europe and how the Greens expect to deal with refugees at Europe’s external borders in the future.
ntv.de: You are negotiating the issue of Europe for the Greens in the coalition negotiations: At its summit tomorrow, the EU is threatened with another ordeal because of the dwindling independence of the Polish judiciary. Unlike the outgoing federal government, you advocate sanctions against Warsaw. What do you expect from it?
Franziska Brantner: The European Union is built on the rule of law and we must protect this foundation of the EU. This means that we can be sure that the laws are applied equally – whether in Denmark, Romania, Poland or Germany. For this it is important that courts are independent, that there are opportunities to appeal.
How should the EU enforce this against Poland? A procedure to examine the withdrawal of votes fails, among others, because of Hungary.
We have agreed the rule of law conditionality for the EU budget. In other words, EU funds are not paid out if doubts about the rule of law in a member state also call into question the proper use of EU funds. The EU is not an ATM, but a community of values. If you do not use such agreed sanction mechanisms, you will make yourself look ridiculous at some point.
Poland is not the only EU state whose rule of law is in doubt. Is the European community really supported by common values?
Yes, we are still a community of values and rights. But of course there is another country, Hungary, that gives us worries and difficulties. We see there that Ms. Merkel’s long-term cuddling course, looking away and hoping for improvement, has failed. That is why we must now send clear signals to the Polish government. At the same time, we must continue to invest in the exchange between the populations of the countries, for example strengthening academic or student exchanges. It is important not to tear the bridge down.
Funds from the joint budget or from the Corona fund not to be paid out, but would affect the populations of the countries.
Our Greens proposal is therefore not to cut the money per se, but to pay it out directly to municipalities and civil society actors. This would remove power over the distribution of EU funds in the country from the Polish government. One always has to distinguish between the population and the government of a country.
The Polish government, in alliance with Hungary’s ruler Viktor Orban, could respond to sanctions by blocking EU decisions.
In the areas where the principle of unanimity prevails, in foreign and security policy, that’s true. Other areas, such as the EU Commission’s “Fit for 55” climate program or the regulation of digital markets, only need a qualified majority. We must also apply this principle to foreign and security policy.
The conflict between the federal government and the PiS-led government of Poland has been floating for years. Does the traffic light government have to try a new start in relations with its important neighbor, Poland?
We had always criticized the fact that Poland’s security interests were ignored by the previous federal government. The Eastern European and Baltic partners also have legitimate security concerns with the Russian Nord Stream 2 gas pipeline. We see in the current gas crisis that these concerns are not unfounded. If we do not put German economic interests above Polish security interests in the future, that could help build bridges. That would be worth a fresh start.
But Nord Stream 2 is unstoppable, right?
No, but that doesn’t mean that the subject of energy and gas policy is off the table. This is about the question, are we creating a European strategy, are we creating common gas storage facilities in the EU?
Poland is also currently waging a defensive battle against Belarus’ dictator Lukashenko, who is smuggling refugees from the Middle East to the EU’s external border. How can the EU protect Poland by securing the border without causing ugly pushbacks – meaning violent rejections at the border?
It is terrible to see that Lukashenko is playing with human lives in such a way. He wants to hit the EU itself. That is why it is important that Europe gives a common response and does not leave Poland and other countries at the EU’s external borders alone. But the answer cannot be pushbacks. It is also about how to deal with refugees who cross the EU’s external border. Here, too, the rule of law and human rights must be protected.
But the desire of many EU partners for more robust protection of the external borders is great. How should the coming federal government meet this interest and at the same time uphold the Greens’ ideals of a humane refugee policy?
The EU negotiations on the revision of the Dublin Treaty, which regulates the competence of the countries in dealing with refugees, and on the question of what tasks a European asylum agency should have, are ongoing. We Greens are in favor of a European authority with European officials who would have to answer according to European and international law – instead of shifting responsibility back and forth nationally. The coalition negotiations have to show whether these could become the demands of the traffic light government.
At the same time, the traffic light wants to “end dying in the Mediterranean” and create legal migration routes to Europe. What could these look like?
I am happy about the sentences in the exploratory paper, according to which we as government want to make a contribution to ending the grievances at the European external borders. The task is for the Federal Government to be more active and constructive on the issues of flight and asylum than Federal Interior Minister Horst Seehofer ever was. The fact that we sit out things or propose things in Brussels that cannot be implemented but are well received in parts of Germany must come to an end.
Sebastian Huld spoke to Franziska Brantner