“Every company builds a Berlin airport,” says Deneff in the “climate laboratory” about energy efficiency

Energy efficiency means doing the same thing but using less. A worthwhile approach when electricity and heating costs explode like they did last year – but often also an expensive one that has to be worked on before the costs go down. “You’re too poor to save, that’s what it sounds like in many municipalities,” explain Tatjana Ruhl and Christian Noll from the German Energy Efficiency Initiative (Deneff), which sees itself as the voice of energy efficiency – also in terms of the challenge for large and small companies , but also municipalities that are not only fighting with high bills, but also for their competitiveness. The problem can also be tackled with a tight budget, say Ruhl and Noll in ntv’s “Climate Laboratory”. To put it simply, some solutions from energy service providers work like mobile phone contracts, in which the phone is paid off in installments over years. The project as a whole, however, is reminiscent of perhaps the most chaotic German infrastructure project – and is still worthwhile: “If the entire industry were to switch their lighting to efficient light sources, we would have saved as much electricity as we generate with the longer nuclear power plant runtimes.”

ntv.de: What is the difference between energy efficiency and energy saving?

Christian Noll: Energy efficiency means that I can do the same thing and still use less energy. The classic example is the LED lamp. It shines just as brightly as an incandescent lamp, but consumes less energy. Or I drive a car or bike with a more or less inflated tire. I get just as far, but afterwards I have higher fuel consumption or I have to work incredibly hard.

So you get the same performance for less money?

Christian Noll: Exactly.

However, you have to invest in the new solution beforehand.

Christian Noll: Yes, but I then save energy and CO2 emissions. That goes hand in hand. In the end I have a positive return.

Is that why you are focusing on energy efficiency with the Deneff?

Christian Noll: We founded Deneff in 2010 because at that time there was a lobby in Germany for the craziest things, but none for energy efficiency. And that despite the fact that 13 years ago many companies in Germany were already offering the world’s leading solutions for saving energy – in the building sector, in the industrial sector, products, services, from start-ups to large corporations. At that time, energy saving targets were also set by politicians at the same time, but unfortunately non-binding and without a concrete way to get there.

So you represent companies that offer solutions for better energy efficiency, not energy efficiency per se?

Christian Noll: Yes, the energy efficiency itself. At the same time we are a network. We have a wide variety of companies that offer efficiency solutions as members, as well as municipalities such as the city of Frankfurt. Partly also individual entrepreneurs. Energy efficiency is a heterogeneous topic. We are not a classic industry representative, but rather subject lawyers.

In the large-scale “energy crisis” complex, however, the topic of “energy efficiency” comes up surprisingly rarely.

Christian Noll: That is actually the case. Campaigns, talks and the media are all about: If the gas no longer comes from Russia, then where will it come from? There are also the well-known appeals to save energy with the much-cited energy-saving shower head or washcloth. But that doesn’t mean that the topic of “energy efficiency” doesn’t take place. Energetic refurbishments have increased significantly both in companies and in households, and measures to increase efficiency in industrial processes have increased.

Because energy efficiency saves money?

Christian Noll: Exactly. If you look at the German building stock, many houses are past their best. But we all want to live in a modern, sustainable country with an infrastructure worth living in and competitive companies. So we have to invest anyway.

How big is the potential from an economic point of view?

Tatjana Ruhl: Industrial companies in particular have an extreme cost point when it comes to energy costs. On average, it is three percent of their expenses, in many cases significantly more. Investing in energy efficiency is blatantly important if these companies are to remain competitive. Thank God, many companies have been operating so-called energy management systems for a long time and measure very precisely what consumption they have where and what decisions they have to make. Anyone who didn’t do that noticed it during the energy crisis.

Because you had skyrocketing costs?

Tatjana Ruhl: Exactly. In case of doubt, these companies also fell into a kind of panic and did nothing at all instead of investing their way out of the crisis.

Do you have an example? Where did things go particularly badly?

Tatjana Ruhl: Unfortunately, the companies do not approach me individually (laughs).

Christian Noll: A concrete example that everyone knows is micro-enterprises. The crisis does not only affect large, energy-intensive companies that produce steel or cement. And the smaller the companies are, the less often people have thought about what can be done beforehand. For example, I have a kiosk downstairs in my house that operates seven or eight beverage refrigerators, because people in Berlin like to drink five different types of mate and all kinds of beers. In summer, the operator starts sweating profusely because the refrigerators give off heat in order to be able to cool. So he also puts an air conditioner in the shop – with an open door. It is clear that he will then be annoyed by his electricity bill.

All that’s missing is for him to open the fridges to cool…

Christian Noll: Yes, but we also know many examples of small, family-run businesses that care deeply about the topic. Unlike listed companies, where everything you invest has to pay off within two or three years, they often have a longer-term perspective. For example the Metal forming in Limburg, which was awarded the German Environmental Prize in 2020. Many companies are literally licking blood after the first measures have been taken and say: I’ll keep at it!

You get into an efficiency frenzy?

Christian Noll: You could say that. These companies inspire others.

Conversely, many smaller companies such as porcelain factories or breweries say: we would have liked to do it, but never had the surplus to invest because the costs can be very high. Many of them went bankrupt due to the energy crisis.

Christian Noll: One is too poor to save, that’s what it sounds like in many municipalities. That’s why it’s not surprising if everyone at home uses LED lights, but some of the oldest lights are still on the streets in the municipalities. But there are definitely ways and means to tackle the conversion anyway. For example, energy service providers who say: I will invest in this system for you and then sell you not gas or fuel, but heat. The systems are financed through this heat price, which companies pay monthly.

energy service provider?

Christian Noll: It works in a similar way to cell phone contracts, where the cell phone is included. You don’t pay 500 euros all at once, but a monthly installment. Likewise, there are companies that supply equipment and energy for a monthly payment. Heat, cold, whatever.

You mentioned the Berliner Späti, but what ways and means are there for large industrial companies to become more efficient? Does it count as an efficiency measure if you switch off the light more often? Will water consumption be reduced? Is gas consumption the focus?

Tatjana Ruhl: In fact, things are not that different in industrial companies than at home. There are power applications like light, but that’s not the biggest item. These are motors, pumps, heat applications and cooling applications. In principle, they have very large refrigerators, very large heaters, very large washing machines, very large dryers and, in the paper industry, also very large hair dryers. And of course it is also a huge issue in industry whether the light is only on where people are actually working. The difference is that you can’t just switch off the light when you leave the hall, it will definitely go wrong. You have to imagine it like a large flat share: the more people are involved, the more you have to automate such processes.

Simply turning off the light will probably not save Germany as an industrial location.

Tatjana Ruhl: No. But with modern technology, you can almost always save 20 percent of energy in every single area – regardless of whether it’s light, motors or heat applications.

Christian Noll: Recently there was a debate about extending nuclear power plant runtimes. If the entire industry would switch their lighting to efficient light sources, we would have saved as much electricity as we generate with the longer runtimes. Switching on and off, motion detectors, day-based and demand-based control – these are topics where you can support the human factor in saving energy.

And how quickly will these changes pay off for companies?

Christian Noll: As always, it depends. There are areas, such as lighting, in which the leaps in technology have been so great in recent years that switching from incandescent lamps to LEDs is worthwhile after just a few weeks – also from the point of view of resources in terms of CO2 consumption. Of course, if I only built my building five years ago, it makes no sense to modernize it now in terms of energy efficiency. Old boilers in private households, but also many systems in industry, are good German workmanship that has been in use for decades. Measures there can, in turn, pay off very quickly. The rule of thumb is: The older a system is, the more worthwhile it is to switch.

Where would you start with the transition? What’s the first step?

Tatjana Ruhl: As with all larger projects, it is best to make a plan first (laughs). In the best case, the company has a transformation concept, i.e. a strategy paper on the question: How do I actually become climate neutral? There are service providers that you can buy for that. That is also encouraged.

Financially?

Tatjana Ruhl: Exactly, 80 percent. You practically get the plan as a gift from the state. Next, I have to consider which of the many measures I can best carry out. Sometimes I have to invest, sometimes change a process. This is a huge project. You can imagine it as if every company in Germany currently has to build its own Berlin airport.

That doesn’t sound very encouraging…

Tatjana Ruhl: That’s why you need people and structures that have it under control.

Clara Pfeffer and Christian Herrmann spoke to Tatjana Ruhl and Christian Noll. The conversation has been shortened and smoothed for better understanding.