Emily Haber, the German ambassador to the United States, is stepping down at the age of 67, ending her diplomatic career. In an interview, she talks about her difficult time with ex-US President Trump, the cooperation after the shock of the Russian war of aggression – and what characteristics of the Americans she will take with her to Berlin.
ntv: Madam Ambassador, at the end of your diplomatic career, the USA was your home for five years. How did you feel when you packed your suitcase the last time? And what are your plans for afterwards?
Emily Haber: With the feeling it’s the last time. It’s the end of a chapter. The only plan I have now is to really do nothing for three months. Then I will make a decision. But until then I won’t meet any.
If you look back at those years you’ve spent here, maybe on a grand scale. Do you have an adjective to take with you?
… was German Ambassador in Washington, DC since June 2018
Overall, she worked in the foreign service for over 40 years.
In 2009 she was appointed Political Director and in 2011 State Secretary. She was the first woman to hold each position.
She was then seconded to the Federal Ministry of the Interior, where she was State Secretary from 2014 to 2018, responsible for internal security and migration policy.
They were extraordinary years, they were very challenging years. Those were years of ups and downs. But now that I’m leaving, I can say that the bilateral-transatlantic relationship is in good shape.
Her job was to maintain diplomatic relations, even under Donald Trump. How difficult was that?
The German debate was very focused on the President, and he was the central figure in bilateral relations. But in this debate in Germany it has sometimes been overlooked that this relationship involves much, much larger areas. So think of the massive presence of German business here. Think of town twinning, think of scientific relations.
Even if the President adopts a different tone?
In a way yes. Because the intensity, the density of this landscape of relationships was there, there was an almost structural reassurance for the relationship. When I traveled in the country, the issues that I might have discussed critically here with the administration were far away. Nord Stream 2, trade balance, the 2 percent defense spending target among NATO member states: I haven’t heard much about it in Texas or North Dakota.
Have you sometimes woken up and thought: for God’s sake, what kind of tweet is that again when you turn on your cell phone or the television in the morning? There were always surprises with Trump.
Yes, in those years I did indeed check the Twitter account first thing in the morning. I don’t do that anymore.
Did you breathe a sigh of relief when Joe Biden was elected?
It’s not my job to breathe a sigh of relief when presidents are elected or not elected.
Is the concern in Germany justified that these deeper relationships could be permanently damaged by what a president is doing or has done?
The German Embassy in Washington, DC
(Photo: picture alliance/dpa)
It can have deeper effects over a longer period of time if the bilateral relationship is repeatedly pushed to the limit. But there is a very dense architecture of bilateral relations that underpin the political relationship. And they weren’t harmed by it. These are relationships that exist far removed from the political arena, from political discussions. It’s easier to deal with an administration with which we agree on the importance of multilateral relationships or international structures or international treaties, no question about it.
Has working together under Joe Biden perhaps become easier because the channels of communication work better?
We are much more in agreement on many issues than we were before. That’s correct. But the assumption that there was a lack of access to the previous administration or that there was no openness, for example to receive me or to speak to me, is not correct. Access was good in all cases. The sum of the differences of opinion was much larger at the time.
Are you also concerned about the USA at the moment?
The country’s polarization is a major concern. The election campaign (for the 2024 presidential election, editor’s note) will be strongly influenced by resentment, by feelings, by emotions that come from fears of status, fears of losing status. The experience of being left behind is a key driver of polarization. We saw on January 6, 2021, how dangerous it can be when polarization erupts in the way that happened in the Capitol Raid, when crowds invaded the Capitol chanting murder slogans. That was a moment when we really had to worry about the danger that could pose to democracy.
In the country you’re going back to now, there’s also a big debate going on about polarization. The AfD is gaining enormous support in Germany. Do you see parallels in the developments?
parallels do not. But we live in a communication society in which what is happening here can directly and immediately continue elsewhere. There is this immediate risk of contagion from modern technology. I think the main difference is that the structures in this country are very binary, there is a two-party system, a media landscape that is very Manichaean. We have a multi-party system. The Ctails and balances therefore look different (in Germany). The media landscape is much more complex. We have safeguards in place that do not suggest an immediate, reflected contagion. But there are starting points.
Do you take any experiences with you that could help us not to penetrate into such polarization spheres where the USA is?
A political debate that retreats exclusively to Kulturkampf slogans, i.e. that leads to emotional, status-related or status-related debates, can fuel polarization. That is why the current administration is trying very hard to base the debate on concrete economic successes, on improvements. We will see in the election campaign whether this succeeds. An emotional Kulturkampf debate will always tend to take things to the extreme. I have experienced this more at political events, on social media and media. This was much less the case in personal contacts.
What is the current German-American relationship?
I believe that German-American relations are currently in very good condition. One of my really positive experiences is that before and after the outbreak of war, the Russian attack on Ukraine, we worked very closely with the American side, worked on the sanctions and shared positions in Europe.
The tank debate gave the feeling that it could be divided after all.
It played a bigger role in social media than in bilateral relations. To be honest, the fact that our pace sometimes differed, that sometimes there were different ideas, is part of the normality of a bilateral relationship. One of the unpleasant surprises for the Russian President may have been that the Europeans and the Americans could not be divided and that we were able to respond to Russian aggression together.
Do you think it will stay like this?
Yes.
You also worked in Russia for a long time. Did you expect that one day we will experience a war in Europe, starting from Russia?
No.
What impact does this war have on relations between Germany and the United States?
It shocked us all that Russia actually invaded a neighboring country, an independent democracy. Before the war, the Americans expected this more than we did. The outcome of this war will have tremendous significance for the way the geopolitical and geoeconomic map of the future looks. I am absolutely certain that this will not only happen in Europe. Japan will take a close look at this. Taiwan will look at that. So that means the sustainability of our alliance, the sustainability of our support for Ukraine, our ability to stay the course, will carry a tremendous political message about how we, our power and values are viewed in the world.
You were the first woman to hold this office here in Washington DC. Does that mean anything to you?
It’s not the first time I’ve been the first woman to hold a position. In this respect, the news value for me was not particularly great. But it’s true, when I went through the books in the embassy library while cleaning up, I found a book: “Our Man in Washington”. It contains memoirs and reminiscences, notes from all previous ambassadors. I don’t think a remake is planned, but it would need to be changed.
Are you looking forward to being a role model for young female diplomats?
I’ve had the experience – I don’t speak for myself – when women have reached certain positions that it’s suddenly normal, that it’s possible. And in that respect it changes something.
Is there anything you already know you will miss when you get back to Germany?
I take with me the resolution to be just as polite and friendly in everyday life in Germany as I have experienced with Americans. Even in Berlin. I think I’ll miss the American friendliness, the helpfulness, the friendly manners that are in American DNA.
Christopher Wittich spoke to Emily Haber
The interview was shortened for the television broadcast. The written version has been streamlined for better readability.