More and more politicians are being threatened online and on the streets. Because of this, some withdraw completely from political business. The SPD politician Karamba Diaby is fighting back – and getting support.
ntv.de: Mr. Diaby, there is a “death list” circulating on the internet, on which there are politicians who voted for the changes to the Infection Protection Act. Does that frighten you or has it already become part of normality in political business?
Karamba Diaby: As far as I know, the result of the vote on April 21, 2021 was sent on a messenger service. But it is publicly available anyway. In this respect, I take the threats seriously, but do not overestimate them. And I certainly don’t let myself be intimidated. Unfortunately, it’s not the first time I’ve received death threats. I find the increasing brutality of our society appalling.
How do you rate such a list? Is this dangerous?
I leave the assessment to the security authorities. Corona has divided our society between those who deny the virus and its dangers or are critical of certain measures, and those who sometimes want even stronger restrictions. Discussion and criticism is the essence of our democracy; it becomes dangerous when boundaries are crossed in terms of form and content.
At what other levels do you experience hatred and threats?
I regularly experience hatred, agitation and threats in the form of comments on my pages in social media, on Facebook, Instagram or Twitter. That happens very often when I have made a statement on a topic or when the federal government is planning to make a decision. It doesn’t matter whether I’m involved with a speech or not. Then I get offensive and threatening emails. Unfortunately this has almost got a certain “normality”.
Are those always the same people who comment?
There is a small group of people – around ten to fifteen – who are watching me closely when I publish, speak or write an article by or about me. One of them is someone from my constituency. You keep hearing that they are “stupid”, uneducated people who comment. But the person from my constituency is a person who works in a state office and keeps an eye on me, as he says, in order to then direct all his hatred on me.
How would you classify the people who threaten and insult you: Are they racists? Right-wing extremists?
Since I don’t know the people very well, I can’t say whether they are right-wing extremists. But of course I rate people based on their spelling. The statements are definitely misanthropic, racist, derogatory and inhuman. Unfortunately, many also refer to the AfD. That must give us food for thought.
What do you feel when you feel this hatred?
I can’t just wipe that away. It depresses you when you know that you have said or written something or made a political decision and then you always have to assume that you have been insulted or threatened. That doesn’t leave me indifferent.
And what are you doing about it?
If my team and I determine that the comments are unlawful, a complaint will be filed. In the event of allegations or claims that are incorrect, we will respond to the comments and correct them. What gives me courage: There are also many people who show a backlash to the hatred online. And it is also interesting: if I report personally in a comment and object, then I immediately get a lot of encouragement. Every time I show my attitude and say, “I don’t accept that,” some people show solidarity. That too encourages me. So it pays not to just delete these comments, but to do something.
Facebook comments, some of them anonymous, are one thing. But you also get emails from people who don’t hide behind a false name and still want to insult and humiliate them …
… exactly that offend me and are very degrading in tone. I receive these insults by letter and email. We collect them. If we are of the opinion that a limit has been reached, then we will report it. I received up to 400 e-mails every day on the subject of the Infection Protection Act. Of course, there are also serial mails included. But also e-mails that contain sentences like: “If you continue like this, you will know how you will end …”. It’s a threat.
My team doesn’t show me everything either and tells me: You’re a happy person. If you read all of this, you run around in a bad mood, it doesn’t have to be. The organization Hate aid it’s a huge relief for me and my team.
How exactly does the support from Hate-Aid look like?
If a letter or an e-mail arrives that we believe is illegal, it will be forwarded directly to Hate-Aid. They look at it then. Then it goes partly to a lawyer. All cases that I report to Hate-Aid are processed and in some cases also reported. The prerequisite is: If there is a payment of damages, of course the association gets it so that they can help other people as well. That’s a good thing. I can only recommend that.
Nevertheless, one has to say: It is very sad that it had to come to the point in Germany that an association was founded to defend freely elected politicians.
Are politicians deterred and deterred from exercising their office or even running for office because of this hatred on the net and on the street?
Unfortunately, hatred and agitation has increased so much in recent years that many local politicians are considering withdrawing or have already done so. I think that is a huge indictment of our democracy.
Even when I think of the THW, the fire brigade and volunteers, but also of civil servants. What we experience and see there is intense. It can’t stay that way. I also know many who then give up and say: I don’t even know how to go on. I don’t think that’s okay. We just have to make it clear: social media is not a legal vacuum.
What kind of support do you get from the Bundestag?
If you are permanently threatened and the danger situation is assessed in such a way that life and limb are endangered, then there is already support from the Bundestag administration …
…in which form?
In the form of protecting your own home. Anyone can request that. This is then clearly assessed by the LKA and the BKA. Then a decision is made as to whether the person is a threatened person. Then you can get this help.
Did you do that?
Yes i did that.
When the threats increased?
Exactly. As the wave of threats increased. Unfortunately, this protection does not apply to the constituency offices. This is a pity. My request is also that this protection be extended to the offices that need it. Because 90 percent of the employees are in offices and are also threatened. The windows in my office were destroyed – luckily that was during the night and nobody was there. But if the employee had her computer at the window and had been there, then she would have gotten something. Of course, the psychological burden would then be so great that she would say: “I can no longer”. So one should close this security gap with the constituency offices.
How was your experience with the investigative authorities?
Very good. Both in Halle and Saxony-Anhalt at the LKA and here in Berlin at the BKA. They are always available and advise me very professionally. I know that grievances are often reported to law enforcement agencies, but in my case I have to say that I really can’t complain.
For example, there was a case in the last parliamentary term where someone took a picture of me and made a montage out of it. The top part was a picture of me and the bottom part was a montage with a sex organ. Plus a naked white woman. In addition, very ugly pictures, and that was then sent to me by post. The BKA then advised me on how to proceed with such cases.
Has this hatred increased again in times of Corona? In the form of conspiracy theorists who often pair their “theses” with anti-Semitism, racism and xenophobia?
The hatred on the net is constant in my opinion. But it is very dangerous that there is a new mix. In my environment, I also experience that “normal people” have become so radicalized in tone that I say: We should take this very seriously. These are not just any people, but educated people with doctorates. I don’t necessarily want to call them racists or right-wing extremists, but their tone has become so radical that they have simply forgotten how normal interaction with people actually works. That hurts me.
What do you mean specifically?
An example is that some people keep talking of “dictatorship” with a view to the Infection Protection Act or that we politicians would make ourselves “punishable” under “international law” or would commit a “crime against humanity” with a view to lockdown and exit restrictions.
What else should happen on the political side in order to combat this hatred and the threats?
Politics has done a lot. The Network Enforcement Act, for example, is a good step in the right direction. Incidentally, I also think it’s very important and good that people talk about the fact that “catcalling” (sexually suggestive insults against women, editor’s note) appears as a fact in the statistics.
But we are in a new situation, and every new situation requires a response from politics. We create the framework for things to improve. So if these laws don’t work as we imagine, then you have to take the next step. Everything under consideration of the freedom of expression, of course. I am one of those who says: Freedom of expression and freedom of the press are among the most important goods of our democracy. But there is a limit. The limit is where human dignity is touched. Where the freedom of others to say something is restricted. Then the Basic Law takes effect.
I was also pleased that we are now really putting money into our hands across departments in the fight against right-wing extremism. It’s a shame that it came so late. Only after Hanau and Halle did something happen.
What are you personally doing to counter these developments?
As members of parliament, we have now formed our own parliamentary group. For diversity and against right-wing extremism. That was after the events in Hanau. We want to meet regularly across the political groups and question: What should Parliament actually do better? Each parliamentary group has a spokesperson for this group. That was an initiative by a colleague from the Greens and myself. This is a new development. That has never happened before.
Philipp Sandmann spoke to Karamba Diaby
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