In “NZZ-Standpunkte” Josef Ackermann once again speaks about his time in Germany – and takes this as an opportunity for criticism: of himself, the media, but also of the path that the large financial institutions in Europe have recently taken.
He “absolutely underestimated” what it means to enter a German culture. “Many of the things I said are actually absolutely normal in Switzerland,” says Josef “Joe” Ackermann in an interview with NZZ editor-in-chief Eric Gujer. To this day, he can’t get rid of some of the prejudices that arose in the German public, especially in the years before the financial crisis.
After the British group Vodafone had bought up the traditional German company Mannesmann in a hostile takeover, Ackermann recalled that he was very much drawn into the centre. As a foreigner, who was also considered a protagonist of American banking, he was used as a kind of scapegoat. The misunderstanding about his famous victory sign also added a political dimension to the whole thing: “Of course, that was also a bit of Churchill’s victory sign,” says Ackermann today.
His philosophy of the greatest possible separation of state and business – for him as a Swiss a matter of course – was met with a lack of understanding in Germany. “When I said during the financial crisis that we didn’t need state money, Ms. Merkel invited me and asked me to take state money too – out of consideration for the other banks. It was a strange situation.”
“That’s too much for us Germans”
In fact, under Ackermann, Deutsche Bank developed into a real global player that was to accompany the large German companies all over the world. “We succeeded: in 2011 we were well ahead of all other European banks,” says Ackermann.
While the shareholders, politicians and business representatives appreciated his skills, the success brought new problems, says Ackermann: “The legendary head of the feuilleton of the ‘FAZ’, Frank Schirrmacher, has said to me again and again: ‘You provoke an incredible amount Envy – You have wealth, you are powerful, you are intelligent, you are well received and you are charismatic. That’s too much for us Germans.’»
But, according to Ackermann, you have to make a distinction: he was met with much more sympathy from the population than from parts of politics. “But that was very critical in the media. This whole Anglo-Saxon culture with bonuses, with meritocracy is frowned upon.”
“The country is not yet ready to really welcome foreigners in these functions”
He became aware of the differences even before he was at the helm of the bank. “When I became responsible for Asia – in Germany, from Deutsche Bank – almost all country managers were German. And then, of course, I said that we need international people, including local ones.” As a result, some Germans lost their jobs.
The demise of Deutsche Bank following Ackermann’s departure in May 2012 brought his critics back onto the scene. Even if they had already found a new target in his successor Anshu Jain – albeit only for a short time, as Ackermann emphasizes. Because in Germany it is still “very, very difficult” as a foreigner, at least when it comes to top positions in model companies, he says. “The country is not yet ready to really welcome foreigners in these functions.”
Ackermann himself, on the other hand, is prepared to revise earlier assessments, for example with regard to investment banking. Because while in 2011 he campaigned for a move away from this business field under the new conditions wanted by politics, today he has doubts as to whether that was perhaps wrong. “The Americans stayed to some extent and now dominate this business,” he says. Only Barclays and Credit Suisse could keep up at the moment.
France shows Switzerland and Germany the way to the future
Deutsche Bank and other former big players, on the other hand, are no longer represented. Investment banking is indispensable in today’s globalized world. It’s not just about speculation, but above all about advice: “The more the capital market and the money market are used for financing and not the credit market, the more the role of the investment banks is needed,” explains Ackermann.
On the one hand their know-how is in demand and on the other hand their courage. “The essence of banking is dealing with risks, which means taking on risks. If you avoid all risks, then soon you won’t have any more to avoid because you’re simply no longer in business,” summarizes Ackermann. It is not about eliminating risks completely, but about the question of how risks are managed.
When Europeans put themselves out of business to such an extent, they become dependent on other countries’ investment banks. But just as dependencies in energy or food, for example, should be avoided, greater dependencies in the financial system must also be avoided, says Ackermann.
“I very much hope that CS will not reduce all risks now”
According to the 74-year-old, the French are showing where the journey could possibly go again at Deutsche Bank, which is now building up an internationally competitive major bank with a corresponding focus.
And Switzerland? They shouldn’t dwarf themselves, says Ackermann, referring to the current development at Credit Suisse. “I very much hope that CS will not reduce all risks now, but that you can strengthen the position you have in the world again.” Because it is still there.
If he were to take on responsibility again today, he would “speak the word for consolidation”, says Ackermann finally. With regard to Switzerland, he is thinking of a possible merger of CS and UBS, which “would create a very strong bank, managed out of Switzerland”. He would accept the associated dismantling of the branch network – according to Ackermann, this would only mean an acceleration of the unstoppable change anyway.