Only men want CDU chairmanship: AKK: "That feels kind of wrong"

In the new year the CDU loses its female leadership duo with Angela Merkel and Annegret Kramp-Karrenbauer. And the succession has its pitfalls. In an interview with ntv.de, AKK takes a look ahead at the party's construction sites in the super election year – and at new anger.

ntv.de: Ms. Kramp-Karrenbauer, will we still have to celebrate Christmas 2021 with some distance and mask?

Annegret Kramp-Karrenbauer: There's a chance we won't have to do that. It depends on whether we are making good progress in vaccinating and whether we have learned the necessary lessons from our experiences over the past year.

At the moment the willingness to vaccinate is still too low. How are you going to change that?

We won't force anyone. I am sure that we can convince a lot of people. There are still many questions, for example about side effects, etc. We have to talk openly about this and provide answers.

The Bundeswehr is also providing administrative assistance in the course of fighting the pandemic. How many soldiers are currently deployed?

We currently have more than 11,000 soldiers on duty – the largest number of them for contact tracking in the health authorities as well as in old people's and nursing homes. Overall, we have increased the contingent for Corona aid to 20,000 soldiers. In addition, almost 100 paramedics support the civilian hospitals in the Görlitz district. We have been helping where we can since the beginning of the pandemic. We are prepared to operate up to 26 vaccination centers throughout Germany as part of administrative assistance. Mobile vaccination teams of a similar size can be used for this purpose.

Are soldiers assigned to do this or do you rely on voluntary action?

Those who have been assigned to the Corona aid contingent perform this service as usual. They are ready and go where they are needed. At the same time, there are many active soldiers, reservists, civil servants and civil employees who have volunteered, for example to help in health departments.

But the Bundeswehr does not help all municipalities that apply for help.

When it comes to administrative assistance, we act on the basis of the Basic Law. It regulates the use inside very clearly. Limiting factors are always: What is the legal situation like? And do we have what is needed? For example, we were asked whether the German Armed Forces could take over police duties in reception centers. We do not do that. The question of medical staff is also often difficult. They are needed where our people are on duty and need to be looked after. Up to 80 percent of our Bundeswehr hospitals are involved in civilian care, and of course our medical personnel are needed there too.

When it comes to the Bundeswehr, a tangible dispute is currently looming with the SPD over the purchase of armed drones. After first announcing her consent, she now wants to discuss it again. What do you call it, your coalitionspartner there?

The behavior of the SPD is irresponsible. This applies above all to the security and protection of our soldiers. We agreed in the coalition agreement that we would like to make a decision after a broad debate. Anyone who says that this debate allegedly did not take place is desperately looking for an excuse to avoid a decision. We have been discussing the armament of drones to protect our troops for eight years. The requirements of the coalition agreement are clearly met.

The opposition actually attests to that.

An operation with armed drones, like any operation in Germany, is of course subject to the mandate of the German Bundestag. How a leading representative of the SPD can come up with the idea that a decision in favor of a war of aggression with drones would be possible in the German Bundestag is in no way apparent to me. My impression is that every effort is being made to find an argument so as not to have to say clearly: The SPD does not want this protection for our soldiers. In this respect I can only say: Such an SPD sees itself in the tradition of Oskar Lafontaine and not in that of Helmut Schmidt. It goes without saying that we in Germany and Europe need the most modern protection for our armed forces.

How do you respond to the fundamental concern that the inhibition threshold for an attack could drop when using a drone?

I take this very seriously. In the broader debate, we have dealt very intensively with the argument whether the use of drones could lead to a dissolution of military force. With the right operational principles, clear limits can be set. In our mission statement, we have stipulated that an armed drone must always be controlled by a human – never by an algorithm or by artificial intelligence. A drone pilot is on site, sees and feels the situation and is involved in the overall event – perhaps even more and more comprehensively than a fighter pilot flying quickly over the events. Our drone pilots are constantly advised on questions of international law.

Is the drone a type of weapon that will make the fighter jet obsolete?

No. We shouldn't confuse the discussion about arming drones to protect our troops with other issues. One lesson from the conflict between Armenia and Azerbaijan is that real war can be waged with drones. Drones are easier to get hold of, they are much cheaper than the big jets. And they are not always in the hands of states, but possibly also in the hands of terrorist groups. That is why we also have to look much more closely and urgently at the question of how we defend ourselves against drones. Because it depends on how we position ourselves in the air defense in the future. In any case, we cannot pretend that the technical developments are passing us by.

The SPD parliamentary groupchairing Mützenich has dared to suggest that the defense minister should make the possibleability of an international Abrustungs agreement for bearmed Exploring drones.

The federal government is preparing an initiative for international operational principles based on international law for armed drones. The Federal Foreign Office is in charge and is already working on it. We agreed that in July with the report on the debate and the principles of operation. In this respect, the SPD parliamentary group leader demands something that is already in preparation. Furthermore, for me these negotiations cannot be a precondition for our decision to arm. The Bundeswehr is now deployed and needs protection immediately.

Doesn't sound like the grand coalition is starting the new year peacefully.

It is evident that at least one coalition partner has entered the election campaign mode prematurely. That was to be expected, but it is still disappointing. I am in favor of us – also with a view to the Covid situation – in the coalition continuing to concentrate on factual politics. As Minister of Defense, I will continue to do everything I can to get the best out of the soldiers.

The CDU can also run an election campaign badly because there is still no CDU boss and candidate for chancellor. At the party congress in mid-January, Friedrich Merz will run again for election. His attacks on the alleged party establishment did not go down well with you either. Have the waves smoothed out again in the meantime?

I think the polls for the candidates showed that the people in the country neither appreciate nor honor such a kind of argument. That's why the candidates sat down again in threes. I would also have preferred a presence party conference. Since this is not possible, meetings must be held in digital form – with the necessary final vote by postal vote so that this is also legally secured.

What ability is your successor most likely to have for the office?

What the CDU needs is unity and focus on the election year. That is the difference to 2018, when there were subsequent debates about the unresolved candidate question. Now we are actually facing a super election year. The first state elections follow a few weeks after the party congress. A few months later, the general election. Everyone in the party should know that, including the three candidates. The closer and more collectively we work together in the CDU, the higher the chances of success.

Norbert Röttgen was the only candidate for chairmanship to emphasize that as CDU leader he does not necessarily have to be a candidate for chancellor. Does this suggest an alliance with Markus Söder?

He said that at the beginning of his candidacy. Most recently, he was clear in the statement that for him the presidency is also linked to the potential candidate for chancellor. That must also be the natural claim of every CDU chairman. Whether this will ultimately lead to the potential CDU candidate for chancellor also being the candidate of the entire Union will be discussed between the two parties. It has always been like that.

Would you support Markus Söder's candidacy for chancellor?

(laughs) I will now first see that the CDU comes to a party chairman with a successful party congress. Everything else is then in the hands of the new chairman.

Where are the CDU women actually in the competition?

I regret that no woman was ready to run. But that's a snapshot. If a party was headed by a woman for a very long time and then followed by another, this does not automatically mean that the issue is resolved in a positive way. But there is a debate in the party about the fact that only men should run – and that shows what has changed in the CDU. Today this kind of feels wrong. But I have also seen times in the party when you would have met with pure incomprehension on the subject.

Other prominent departures from top politicians – such as Linda Teuteberg as FDP general secretary – are likely to have a deterrent effect on young women.

There are still convincing women who are involved in top politics. But what each of us has surely noticed is that the type of attacks against women during arguments, especially in social media, is more in a sexualized context than is the case with men.

The CDU wants to have a 50 percent quota for women by 2025. Markus Söder failed with a mandatory quota in the CSU. Why should it be any different in the CDU?

We chose a different path than the CSU. A structure and constitution commission, in which both proponents and opponents of quotas sat, negotiated this hard. And a compromise has been found, which not only the chairwoman of the Women's Union but also the head of the Junge Union has approved and which has been accepted by the federal executive committee. Therefore the decision is of course not a sure-fire success. It still has to be fought through at the party congress. It will be a very intense debate. But if we set quotas for the board members of DAX companies in motion, we as a party cannot remain inactive within ourselves. That would be anything but credible.

On average, a CDU member is currently 60 years old and male.

At the moment we are still living off the baby boom cohorts. So, first of all, we also have an interest in keeping our membership base. For this we need new members – regardless of whether they are older or younger, men or women or whatever gender they feel they belong to. That is the task we all face in the CDU.

In the last general election, the CDU led a personal election campaign with Angela Merkel at the helm. That will no longer be possible in 2021. How do you intend to convince Merkel voters to vote for the CDU anyway?

A long term of office ends with the departure of Angela Merkel. The course is being set again. For this reason alone, there will definitely be major content-related disputes in 2021. I believe that the previous CDU voters will primarily look at what the CDU has to offer for the future. Not only in terms of personnel, but also in terms of content. What are our answers for a highly industrialized country that also wants to make its contribution to climate protection? What are our answers to digitization? How do we ensure that people in an increasingly confusing world can realize their lifelong dreams of a good life in security and prosperity, of a good future for their children? And what did we actually learn from Corona? We must answer these questions wisely.

Corona will not make the election campaign easier. How does the CDU want to reach the local people?

The state elections in spring will of course be particularly hard hit. But we saw in the local elections in North Rhine-Westphalia that election campaigns are possible in times of Corona. We hope that the vaccinations will lead to the situation easing in summer. We will certainly have to use more digital formats in the federal election campaign, but hopefully face-to-face events will also be possible.

You have had a turbulent year behind you. You announced your resignation in February and have now been in office for almost as long as before. Which phase of your term of office did you find more challenging?

It feels like two completely different worlds. The time before that was certainly marked by difficult party work, but the time after was completely covered by Covid-19. So it's difficult to compare.

The last turbulence in Saxony-Anhalt was the increase in the radio license fee. The black-red-green coalition almost burst there. Why was there so little reaction from Berlin?

That was a very special situation. We communicated a lot with our party friends in Saxony-Anhalt – but not through the public, but in personal conversations. It is well known that the CDU in Saxony-Anhalt has its own opinion on the subject of broadcasting fees. But it is also known that all the other CDU parliamentary groups have approved the state treaty. That is why I – also as the former Prime Minister of the Saarland – expressly do not share the position of the CDU in Saxony-Anhalt. But it was also a very transparent maneuver by the coalition partner on site not to implement something that they had written into the coalition agreement. In Berlin, attempts were then very quickly made to put the CDU in the right-hand corner. That hardened the fronts even more. It was therefore no longer possible to find a solution to the matter.

Means "conservative" for the CDU im east something else?

In the east there is a different sensitivity to the question of what influence the party headquarters has on the decisions on the ground. I notice this again and again in discussions with our regional associations in the east. If the impression arises that something should be given from Berlin, this leads to high sensitivity. Then I realize very quickly that an open debate is becoming more difficult.

In the USA, the handover to Joe Biden is due to take place at the beginning of the year. Why should he reverse the plans to withdraw US troops from Germany?

Because the stationing of American soldiers in all of the places mentioned makes sense. Germany is a very important country for the logistics of troop transfers to other parts of the world. When making this decision, you have to calculate what the political and strategic effects are and what costs are associated with them. A transfer of troops is not so quick and costs the American side money. These are all factors that may not have played a decisive role in the Trump administration's decision.

As for the two percent target, Trump has one point. Germany is still a long way from meeting the requirements.

That will also be negotiated with President Joe Biden – certainly in a more polite tone, but just as hard on the matter. And it is not a debate that only Americans have with us. Our European partners also expect Germany in particular to keep its commitments. And we're a long way off from that. And that's why I continue to fight for more sustainable funding for our armed forces. Because a strong Bundeswehr is in the best interests of our country.

Frauke Niemeyer and Judith Görs spoke to Annegret Kramp-Karrenbauer

. (tagsToTranslate) Politics (t) Annegret Kramp-Karrenbauer (t) Drones (t) SPD (t) Angela Merkel (t) Markus Söder (t) Friedrich Merz (t) Armin Laschet (t) Norbert Röttgen (t) CDU ( t) Joe Biden (t) Bundeswehr (t) Corona vaccine