POn Wednesday, at the end of the general audience in the Vatican, Pope Francis called on people to continue to pray for those in need in Ukraine. “Let’s not forget the troubled people of Ukraine who are still suffering the war. Let’s not get used to it – as if war were something far away. Our prayers must always include this people who are suffering so much, who are suffering true martyrdom,” said the Pope.
An interview that Francis conducted on May 19 in the Vatican with the editors-in-chief of Jesuit magazines from various European countries was published in several languages on Tuesday. The Pope is himself a member of the Jesuit Order and has made it a habit to receive the local representatives of the Order for a private meeting whenever he visits abroad. In the conversation, the German version of which was published by the magazine “Stimmen der Zeit”, the Pope reiterated his accusation that the West, and especially NATO, was one of the causes of the Russian attack on Ukraine or at least did not prevent it.
In the interview, the Pope reports on a meeting “with a head of state who speaks very little but is very wise”. This head of state expressed “very concern about the development of NATO” and justified it as follows: “They bark at the gates of Russia and they do not understand that the Russians are imperial and do not allow any foreign power to approach them. The situation could lead to war.” This head of state “saw the omens of what was to happen next,” the pope reports of the meeting with the unnamed head of state, which took place “a few months before the war began.”
Four months before the war began, on October 30, 2021, the Pope met with the Indian Prime Minister Narendra Modi and had a confidential conversation with him for an hour. On December 16, the Pope received the Italian President Sergio Mattarella in audience and spoke with him, among other things, about “international affairs”, as the Vatican subsequently announced.
“For me, the Third World War broke out today”
With regard to the war in Ukraine, the Pope warns in the conversation against distinguishing “in an abstract way” and “metaphysically between good and bad”, as in the fairy tale of Little Red Riding Hood and the Big Bad Wolf. If you only look at “the brutality and cruelty” with which this war is being waged by the Russians and their mercenaries, then there is a danger “that we don’t see the whole drama that is playing out behind this war, which maybe in a certain way way was either provoked or not prevented”. He resists accusations of taking sides with Russian President Vladimir Putin, says the pope and continues: “I am simply opposed to reducing the complexity to the distinction between good and bad without thinking about the roots and interests, which are very complex.”
In the conversation, Francis also recalled the numerous other wars that were being waged in “distant countries”, such as in northern Nigeria or in northern Congo and in Myanmar, where the Muslim Rohingya are being persecuted and expelled. “The world is at war. World War III broke out for me today. And that’s something that should give us food for thought. What has happened to humanity that has endured three world wars in one century?”
In the interview with the Jesuit magazines, the Pope also reports on the conversation he had with the Russian Orthodox Patriarch Kirill via a video link from the Vatican. The patriarch, who is regarded as the Russian president’s spiritual and metaphysical cue, first read him a statement with the reasons justifying the war. He then said to Kirill: “Brother, we are not state clerics, we are shepherds of the people”. He wanted to meet Kirill in Jerusalem on June 14 “to talk about our affairs,” reports Francis. “But because of the war, we decided by mutual agreement to postpone the meeting to a later date so that our dialogue would not be misunderstood.” He now hopes to meet Kirill in September in Kazakhstan, the pope said.
Because of persistent pain in his right knee, which has forced him to use a wheelchair for weeks, the Pope has recently had to postpone several planned trips. The meeting with Kirill in Jerusalem should have taken place after the visit to Lebanon on June 12 and 13, which had been canceled at short notice. The Vatican also had to postpone the trip to the Democratic Republic of Congo and South Sudan in early July, citing the recommendation of the Pope’s doctors. Another trip to Canada is planned for the Pope at the end of July. On September 14th and 15th, Francis wants to take part in the seventh congress of world religions in the Kazakh capital Nur-Sultan (formerly Astana) and meet with Kirill. The first and only meeting of Pope Francis and Patriarch Kirill took place in June 2012 at Havana airport.