Schily at Maischberger
“The creator of the constitution did not have mass immigration in mind”
By Marko Schlichting
October 19, 2023, 5:47 a.m
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Otto Schily was Federal Minister of the Interior in the Schröder cabinet, and with Maischberger he comments on the challenges facing today’s federal government. The former SPD politician says he would design asylum policy differently. He also makes a suggestion.
Otto Schily is 91 years old and was Federal Minister of the Interior between 1998 and 2005 in the red-green government of Chancellor Gerhard Schröder, with whom he still has a close friendship. His public appearances have now become rare. Sandra Maischberger talks to him on ARD about his view of the problems facing today’s federal government.
Despite the difficult world situation, Schily remained an optimist. “We must not only see evil, we must see that there is good in the world that fights evil,” he says. He is harshly critical of the federal government’s migration policy. Although the right to asylum is anchored in the constitution, the drafters of the constitution did not have mass immigration in mind, but rather thought of individual cases. Schily suggests that asylum issues should first be dealt with locally. “Why are we not able to set up the German and perhaps also the EU foreign mission in the regions, for example in Africa, so that the persecuted people have an address there, can go there and say that they are from their countries want to leave? And then we should have some help in making a decision. I would be happy if such an idea was included in the talks between the coalition and the opposition,” says Schily.
At the same time, he praises Federal Chancellor Olaf Scholz. “I have great respect for Scholz because he is a person who thinks before he decides.”
Gysi: “At that moment you can only condemn”
At the beginning of the show, Maischberger talks to her guests about the Hamas terrorist attack and its consequences. Gregor Gysi from the Left is Jewish, the former Green foreign politician Marieluise Beck is married to a Jewish man. The Israeli war against Hamas terror leaves neither of them indifferent. “The terrible thing for me is: For thousands of years, Jews were disadvantaged wherever they lived, sometimes more and sometimes less persecuted. They were always outsiders. Then the UN decided to found the state of Israel. For the first time, Jews had one certain security, no matter where they lived, because there is a nation state that can take care of them. And then you have to experience that Jews are not safe here. That is completely out of the question. At that moment you can only condemn,” says Gysi. He is shocked by the images of the last few days and in view of the atrocities committed by Islamist terrorists in Israel: “They really stab, they shoot straight away. It’s so terrible that you can hardly imagine it.”
“The state of Israel must ensure that these attacks stop,” says Marieluise Beck. According to international law, a state not only has the right to defend itself. He also has a duty to protect his population. “The Israeli army is not a terrorist organization like Hamas and Hezbollah,” said Beck. In their view, there are two options for Israel to end the conflict. The army could bomb the Gaza Strip, which would be safer for the Israeli soldiers, but many civilians in Palestine would then be killed. That’s why she believes an invasion of Israeli ground troops into the Gaza Strip would be a better solution, even if a lot of soldiers could be killed. Nobody in Germany can solve the problem of how the Israeli army can achieve its goal of destroying Hamas without making themselves guilty.
Hamas is always about fomenting hatred
Gysi confirms: “The problem with martial law is that the Israeli army can try to eliminate Hamas, but it should spare the civilian population,” he explains. The bad thing about Hamas, however, is that it sacrifices its own people.
“It’s always about fomenting hatred,” says Beck, explaining Hamas’ actions. Gysi sees it similarly, but he has an explanation for it: the stalled peace process between Israel and the Palestinians. “Of course the Palestinians feel enslaved, humiliated and oppressed when you see the walls they live within. I understand that. But you have to be able to curb hatred. And you are not entitled to murder civilians. Under no circumstances.” Israel must now be protected, demands Gysi. “But after that, we are obliged to seriously think about resolving the conflict. I’m really fed up with these murders, and we finally need a political solution.”
However, neither Beck nor Gysi can say what such a solution looks like. “A political solution to the Middle East conflict is further away than ever,” says Beck. “It was bombed away.”