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The former president of Afghanistan, Hamid Karzai, under house arrest in Kabul, gave us an exclusive interview.
Hamid Karzai has not changed. Same slender elegance, same mischievous gaze. Only a few kilos flew away testify to the tension of the last few months. While the vast majority of members of the old regime fled, the former president, a longtime ally of the Americans, chose to stay. At the cost of his freedom: since August 15, 2021, the Taliban have prohibited him from leaving the territory. But the Islamist leaders have also made this skilful politician, darling of the West and from a powerful tribe in the south of the country, a privileged interlocutor. Who, whatever he says, could play a role in the recognition of the emirate by the international community. A crucial step for the new masters of the country, very isolated a year after taking power.
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If he defends himself from any political ambition, the former head of state knows that he is one of the few who can build a bridge between two worlds, a tightrope walker launched on a narrow ridge line. If he comes out of his reserve, it is to demand the immediate reopening of schools for girls, the holding of free elections and the repeal of the compulsory wearing of the burqa. Since his house arrest, Hamid Karzai does not dodge any questions but weighs every word. Aware that, in this new Afghanistan, a misstep can be costly.
Paris Match. The Taliban have been in power for almost a year. What conclusions do you draw from this?
Hamid Karzai. The priority today is to avoid a new civil war. I hope Afghanistan will achieve lasting peace and political stability. This responsibility lies with the Taliban, who must initiate a dialogue in order to take into account the opinions of all Afghans. Including those who disagree with them. We need an inclusive government, in which everyone can identify.
Are the Taliban ready to share power?
In any case, that’s what I’m working on, with the help of Dr. Abdullah.
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The real surprise for me was the flight of President Ghani and members of his government.
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The West was taken aback by the speed with which the country fell on August 15. Was it a surprise for you?
No. Long before the fall of Kabul, the Taliban already controlled large swaths of territory, entire villages and towns. The real surprise for me was the flight of President Ghani and members of his government. If he had not left, everything would have been different: our army would not have collapsed, our assets would not have been frozen, our fleet of helicopters would not have been scattered in neighboring countries. The state would have remained in place. Today we are suffering the terrible consequences of his flight.
Unlike him, you chose to stay. Why?
You cannot pretend to rebuild your country by leaving it. The day after the capture of Kabul, the Taliban came to visit me. We had a very courteous conversation, during which they assured me that they would do everything possible to establish peace. We must remember the confusion that reigned then. The first days were extremely difficult. The turn of events worried me, but I never feared for my own safety. That wasn’t what mattered to me. What mattered to me was that the lives of children and entire families be preserved, that their homes not be looted.
Does your family live with you in Kabul?
My wife and four children are with me. You may have seen them playing in the garden. My eldest daughter is 10 years old. If nothing changes, she won’t be able to go to school in two years. This situation is intolerable and is causing enormous harm to our country. Girls’ education is vital to the future of all of us. At each of my meetings with the Taliban leaders, I urge them to reconsider their decision.
What do you think is the biggest barrier to reopening schools for girls?
It’s up to the Taliban to explain themselves on this. But I think most agree in principle. However, it is clear that no decision has yet been made. What I can tell you is that destroying Afghanistan’s education system benefits those who do not want our country to develop. I am thinking in particular of Pakistan.
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Like me, my wife is saddened by the restrictions on women.
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Your wife is a gynecologist. Does she have the right to practise?
My wife stopped working when we returned to Afghanistan. She practiced when we were refugees in Pakistan. Like me, she is saddened by the restrictions on women.
The Minister of Vice and Virtue accused you of defending women’s rights to please the West, but of having deprived yours of these same freedoms…
My wife has always been free to choose. It was she who decided not to work anymore. As the president’s wife, she should have gone to the hospital with a heavy escort, which she did not want. Then we had children, and she preferred to devote herself to their education.
Are you free to move? Can you travel?
I wanted to go to a conference in Sochi, organized by President Putin, as well as to the funeral of Sheikh Khalifa Bin Zayed, the former president of the United Arab Emirates. Unfortunately, I was not allowed by the Taliban. In Kabul, I can move freely. I just have to let them know when I’m going so they can provide me with an escort.
Why are you not allowed to leave the country? Are the Taliban afraid that you will federate an opposition from abroad?
They have their reasons and I didn’t ask them.
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Afghan women should be free to choose the type of veil they want to wear.
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What relations do you have with the Taliban?
We have cordial relations, I regularly receive their managers at my house. We have points of disagreement, but I do not consider myself an opposition force. And I don’t aspire to be one day. As a citizen and former president, I simply want to work for peace and for every Afghan to live with dignity. But the sine qua non condition is that the girls go back to school!
How to achieve this, concretely?
We must continue to talk to the Taliban, systematically put this subject back on the table. The rest of the world must also support our efforts.
You said in an interview with CNN that the burqa was hurting the country…
I would like to clarify my remarks. I said that the burqa came to us from India centuries ago. The traditional Afghan veil is lighter. Some women, including my mother, prefer to wear the burqa. My wife never wore it. Afghan women should be free to choose the type of veil they want to wear.
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My advice to the Taliban is this: focus your efforts on fostering political dialogue.
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You called on women journalists on television to refuse to wear the burqa. Do they have a choice?
We must avoid inflaming the debates and resolve the problem calmly, in particular with the mediation of religious scholars who have spoken clearly. The problem is about to be solved. Look, you are free to come and visit me, I regularly receive women at my house, no one stops them.
The Taliban face many problems: the economy has collapsed, assets are frozen, no country has recognized their government. But, rather than focusing on these issues, they persist in imposing more and more restrictions on women. Why are they obsessed with the question?
I don’t know, but I agree with you: the country has huge challenges to overcome. Millions of Afghans live in poverty. Thousands of others have chosen exile, many of them young, educated and qualified. My advice to the Taliban is this: focus your efforts on fostering political dialogue.
For years, you have pleaded for the integration of the Taliban into political life. Do you think they are trustworthy partners?
Yes, they are our brothers, in the sense that they belong to this country. Likewise, I consider all Afghans who oppose them today as my brothers.
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My eldest is 10 years old. If nothing changes, she won’t be able to go to school in two years
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Do you believe that the Americans have some responsibility for what is happening today?
Yes, in many ways. Remember how they behaved when they intervened. They bombed houses, they burst into houses, they killed innocent civilians. Then they confiscated the peace negotiations by giving too much power to Pakistan – a country that has never wanted peace for Afghanistan. They wasted precious time with these talks which lacked transparency. I told them several times that we were going to disaster. They didn’t listen.
For their part, the Americans reproached you for not having tackled corruption during your mandate. Do you regret it?
I take my share of the responsibility as president for not having been able to curb petty corruption such as the bribes received by certain members of my government. But institutional corruption was imported by the Americans, particularly through private security companies established in the country and through contracts offered to Afghan officials. They accused us of an evil of which they were the main instigators. It was a strategy on their part, I understood it at the end.
Several security reports point to a strengthening of Daesh in Afghanistan. Is your country on the way to once again becoming a sanctuary for terrorist organizations?
I don’t know if Daesh is getting stronger, but I can tell you that this organization is completely foreign to Afghanistan. It is a creation of the Pakistani intelligence service and combating it is a responsibility of the entire region. If Afghanistan becomes a terrorist sanctuary again, we will not be the only ones to pay the price.