When it comes to the end of the world’s two major wars, they have completely different views: Marie-Agnes Strack-Zimmermann from the FDP and Gregor Gysi from the Left. The two meet on Tuesday evening in the ARD talk show with Sandra Maischberger. The discussion is exciting.
When Marie-Agnes Strack-Zimmermann from the FDP and Gregor Gysi from the Left are invited to a discussion about the wars in the Gaza Strip and Ukraine, you know that there will be a heated argument. This was also clear to the editorial team of the ARD talk show Maischberger when they asked the two of them to exchange views together on Tuesday evening. You weren’t disappointed.
At the beginning there is still widespread agreement. It’s about the war in the Middle East. Both condemn the attack on Israel by the terrorist organization Hamas on October 7th last year; Both consider Hamas’s conduct of the war, whose fighters hide behind the civilian population, to be wrong. Strack-Zimmermann also addresses the Israeli attack on an aid organization a few days ago, in which seven people were killed. “A subjective and objective tragedy,” is what she calls it.
However, she does not support Gysi’s opinion, which is in favor of stopping arms deliveries to Israel. “Most of the things that were delivered are not lethal weapons, i.e. not weapons that can be used immediately, but spare parts, so to speak. These can be rubber coatings, screws, whatever.” In addition, two thirds of the parts were delivered before October 7th. Germany also buys weapons systems from Israel. And Germany supports the people in the Gaza Strip, together with France and the USA, says Strack-Zimmermann.
Gysi nevertheless advocates a weapons ban and demands that the federal government condemn Israel’s actions in the Gaza Strip. And he points to another aspect of the Gaza war: “If you had asked me two years ago, and I am now 76 years old, whether I would live to see the Middle East conflict resolved, I would have said ‘no’. But now I am I’m not sure anymore.” A solution to the conflict in the Middle East can only consist of a two-state solution with a security guarantee for Israel. However, if Iran intervenes in the fighting, the war could spread into a conflagration across the entire region.
There’s a bang in the Ukraine war
The dispute between Strack-Zimmermann and Gysi breaks out when the opponents argue about the war in Ukraine. While Strack-Zimmermann continues to demand arms deliveries to Ukraine, Gysi advocates a diplomatic solution. He explains: “The situation for Ukraine is getting worse every day. I said tens of days ago that we need a ceasefire as quickly as possible.” Ukraine cannot take back either Donbass or Crimea militarily. “Then it’s just about negotiations.” But only someone who Russian President Vladimir Putin takes seriously, i.e. neither Germany, France, Great Britain nor the USA, can negotiate.
Gysi brings China and India into play. “If they broke off relations, then he would be really isolated. He can’t afford that.” It is important to convince the Chinese and Indian governments that they are against giving up Ukrainian territory. Mediation between the Russian and Ukrainian governments would then be necessary. Gysi emphasizes that this could be about the re-admission of the Russian language or dual citizenship. Instead, Europe is imposing sanctions against China and Indian companies. This brought the two countries closer to Russia.
Moderator Sandra Maischberger Strack-Zimmermann asks whether Chancellor Olaf Scholz could launch a corresponding initiative during his visit to China at the weekend. She replies: “If the Chancellor brings up the topic, then that’s always helpful.” However, one should not lose sight of China’s close connection with North Korea. The country supports Russia in exchange for know-how. Nevertheless: “If the Chancellor could now travel to China and ensure that the Chinese in turn ensure that Russia withdraws its troops today, and immediately, then there would be peace in Ukraine.” At the same time, the FDP defense expert explains that Ukraine only has one chance to survive, and that is through strength.
The dream dancer question
Gysi counters. His argument: the upcoming US election. If Donald Trump wins, “the bad solution for Ukraine will come out.” Germany must now take the initiative, then significantly more can be saved for Ukraine “than if Trump is elected president.”
“Don’t be such a dream dancer,” interrupts Strack-Zimmermann Gysi. “No, you’re a dream dancer,” he replies: “You really think you can win in Russia with rockets. That’s silly.” A supposedly weaker country could certainly win a war, says Strack-Zimmermann.
Finally, the two opponents talk about the delivery of Taurus cruise missiles. Chancellor Scholz clearly rejected this. Gysi welcomes this step and he does not believe that the Chancellor will back away from it. “The Chancellor said he doesn’t want to deliver, and we’ll accept that now,” said Strack-Zimmermann. “I think he’ll stick with it. That would be a loss of face for him too. I regret that.” The point is that Ukraine has been fighting for its survival for two years and two months, said Strack-Zimmermann. “And for this to stop, we need a ceasefire,” Gysi concludes by once again underlining his demand.
Admittedly, there wasn’t much new in this discussion. It must be recognized that both politicians can convince their respective supporters – and that both are very serious about their concerns.