The well-known Israeli historian, Tom Segev, criticizes the Israeli government. He also calls for a ceasefire in Gaza. He doesn’t have much hope for peace soon, as becomes clear when we talk to him.
SRF News: The Hamas attack was over a month ago. Has everyday life returned to Israel?
Tom Segev: No. The initial shock has even deepened. We are hearing more and more horrific stories of these atrocities. The big question is: How could this happen? A whole generation of Israelis grew up with the idea that we are safe in Israel.
Suddenly Hamas comes and kills over a thousand people.
This comes from the Zionist dream of finding a place where Jewish people can live safely and securely. And suddenly Hamas comes and kills more than a thousand people and takes hundreds of hostages. In addition, rockets from the Gaza Strip continue to be fired at Israeli cities.
They say Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu is failing as a statesman in this war. How come?
For years, Netanyahu argued that it would be good for Israel if Hamas ruled Gaza autonomously. He gave Israel the feeling that it had control over the Palestinian problem. This is obviously not the case. Netanyahu completely overlooked the fact that Hamas was getting stronger. She has built a strong army and is combative.
Netanyahu appears on US television several times a week – but he does not give interviews to Israeli media.
I also find Netanyahu’s behavior neither courageous nor sincere at the moment. Although he appears on American television several times a week, he does not give interviews to the Israeli media, only statements. When he is asked by foreign media representatives whether he is partly to blame for the war, he replies that after the war we all have to answer this question. The “we” is meant to suggest that it’s not his fault.
Legend:
Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu wanted to suggest that the Hamas terrorist attack on October 7 was not his fault, says historian Tom Segev.
Keystone/Abir Sultan
Who are the victims in this conflict?
The Palestinian civilian population. The people who do not live for ideology, who do not live for politics, who do not live for religion, but who are forced to live under a totalitarian regime of Hamas. They are the victims now. The decision to destroy Gaza is, in my opinion, difficult to justify. As a historian, I have always been against the bombing of cities.
I no longer believe in the two-state solution.
Do you believe peace is possible?
Everything is possible. I have seen many walls fall that no one would have thought possible. Apartheid in Africa, the Berlin Wall, the conflict in Ireland – none of it exists anymore. These were all conflicts that one thought would last forever. Who knows, maybe this will happen to us too.
Many still hope for the two-state solution. Is this realistic?
I no longer believe in the two-state solution. After the Oslo Accords I was still optimistic. However, the geopolitical situation in Palestine has changed and many areas that would belong to Palestine are populated by Israelis. Both countries define their national identity through the country, the entire country. This means that any compromise would mean giving up part of the respective identity. We are obviously not capable of this.
The interview was conducted by David Karasek, assisted by Géraldine Jäggi.