On the occasion of the 20th edition of the Marrakech International Film Festival, AlloCiné met actor Willem Dafoe in the heart of the city. Choosing your roles, working with young directors, your memory with William Friedkin… Meeting.
Few men can boast of having been Jesus Christ, Pier Paolo Pasolini, Vincent van Gogh and Spider-Man’s arch-enemy in a single lifetime. Willem Dafoe has this luxury. That of being an actor with a thousand faces for more than forty years. Among the 150 films that punctuate his career, we find everything: auteur cinema, big Hollywood machines, experimental works with, as a common point, the irrepressible desire to always reinvent oneself and dare.
A simple glance at the list of directors who directed it and it’s guaranteed to be dizzying. Martin Scorsese, Oliver Stone, David Lynch, Werner Herzog, Wim Wenders… So many names who shaped an entire era of cinema. But the genius of Willem Dafoe is also, and above all, to inspire a new generation of filmmakers which allows the 68-year-old actor to have fun more than ever. This is the case in Poor Creatures by Yórgos Lánthimos – Golden Lion at the Venice Film Festival -, but also Nosferatu by Robert Eggers.
Searchlight Pictures Willem Dafoe, once again transformed in “Poor Creatures” by Yórgos Lánthimos.
AlloCiné: Mads Mikkelsen mentions your name when he talks about those who made him want to play. And you, who inspired you?
Willem Dafoe: I feel guilty answering this to you, but I don’t have a specific name to give you. I quickly became fascinated by the notion of “poor theater” by Jerzy Grotowski. [une forme de théâtre qui abandonne les décors et les costumes pour se concentrer uniquement sur le corps de l’acteur, ndlr]. His theories influenced me a lot.
There are directors that I admire, works that I admire. But just one actor? Just one director? No. I’m quite eclectic. I like dancing, I like going to galleries. These are all the things that inspire me. Every actor, every job is different. I would be stupid to answer Marlon Brando for example. He’s an interesting character, but I can’t model myself after him. I don’t recognize myself in that.
Your filmography is incredibly rich with very varied choices. However, there is a real coherence in your roles, always on the razor’s edge. What do you look for first in a character?
I want him to change my perception of things. I want to learn and see differently. He seems a bit like the good student in class, but it’s that thrill and excitement of learning something new that gives me pleasure. This helps broaden my vision of what is possible and how we can live. I play to find personal liberation. As ridiculous as movies and shows can be sometimes, they can be very helpful in achieving this.
I feel the need to break the hold that society has on us.
You have worked with many great directors and have remained loyal to some of them, like Paul Schrader – six films together – and Abel Ferrara – seven films. Do these relationships of trust allow you to go even further in your interpretations?
Absolutely because you are part of their vocabulary. If you’ve worked with them more than once, you become a character in a long novel. This is very important to get away from yourself. Which is quite ironic, because everything we do comes from within. But I think all our problems are based on a fucking identity that doesn’t even exist. This is why it is important to have a fluid identity.
What do you mean by “fluid”?
You have to know how to free yourself from the image you have of yourself and what you think you are. I am really struck by the fact that, from the moment we are born, we construct a false identity. It’s not necessarily our fault, but society’s. We don’t know where it comes from, but we accept it, that’s all.
I grew up middle class, from a large family. We were neither rich nor poor. We were perfectly normal average Americans. It’s not like I came from a difficult place. I had a relatively comfortable life growing up, but somewhere I feel the need to break the hold that society has on us.
Capricci Films
Willem Dafoe as Pier Paolo Pasolini in the 2014 biopic directed by Abel Ferrara.
Paul Schrader and Abel Ferrara represent a raw, punk cinema. Many say that this cinema no longer exists today, that we can no longer make the same films as before. Your work with Robert Eggers Or Yorgos Lanthimos demonstrates that there is always room for transgression. What do you think ?
It’s hard to say. You will laugh, I know how to make films but I don’t know much about films. Maybe that’s what saves me (laughter). What you say is interesting. It’s true that I’m not particularly attached to a certain kind of old Hollywood glamour, creating a career and all those things. I’m a little interested in it, but that’s not what motivates me.
What interests me is being with people I love. Special people who have a special point of view, who have a special vision. This is why, for an American, I have always gravitated towards auteur cinema, which is not really the norm. We have to find these people. They’re not always the ones with the greatest careers. These aren’t always the most successful films, but these are the ones.
You have been filming for a long time but many young spectators know you and follow your work, particularly thanks to films like Spiderman. How do you view this audience?
I realize that and I love it. They are the future. Much is said about the wisdom of old age, but there is also much to be said about the corruption that accompanies old age (laughter). I love the energy of this youth and all the possibilities it offers because they don’t know anything better.
When it comes to cinema, I know people who have been very successful and who are still working, but they are tired and say to themselves: “Damn, it was a lot more fun and easier before.”They complain all the time.
Working with young directors is different. They are excited and enthusiastic. “Damn, this is so cool. I can make my movie, we’re going to go here, we’re going to do this.” That’s what I want to hear.
Marvel
Nearly 20 years after Sam Raimi’s “Spider-Man”, Willem Dafoe found the features of the Green Goblin in “Spider-Man: No Way Home”.
I would like to tell you about the director William Friedkin, died last August. It was he who offered you one of your first major roles, in Federal Police, Los Angeles in 1985. What memory do you have of him?
There are many. This is a special film for me because William Friedkin was a successful Hollywood filmmaker. But at that point, he was no longer popular and he said to himself: “And then shit, I’m going to do this alone with unknown actors.” And it was just exciting. It’s an example. And in this specific case, he was the old one and I was the young one (laughter).
He said : “Fuck all these guys in Hollywood. I want to do things differently.” There was always something in him that went against the grain. He was a guy who didn’t let himself be walked on. Nobody could buy it. Sometimes we’d come on set and he’d say, “We are not going to do what was planned.”
He would find new places to shoot and decide to go there on a whim, change the plans. He was full of surprises, and sometimes it seemed like he was crazy, but it was always exciting.
Comments collected by Thomas Desroches, in Marrakech, November 25, 2023.