Interview with Peter Neumann: "Trump Movement Will Produce Terror"

Saturday, January 09, 2021

Interview with Peter Neumann
"Trump Movement Will Produce Terror"

The storm on the Capitol was not the end, but the beginning of an extremist movement, says political scientist Peter Neumann. "What we saw on Wednesday was not yet terrorism – but rarely has a terrorist movement announced itself so spectacularly."

ntv.de: What were the motives of the people who invaded the Capitol on Wednesday?

Peter Neumann is a Senior Fellow at the International Center for the Study of Radicalization at King’s College, London.

(Photo: picture alliance / Ina Fassbender / dpa)

Peter Neumann: These people are clearly convinced that President Trump's election victory was stolen. And they try to change this injustice – because that is how they perceive it.

Joe Biden said they weren't protesters but "a rampaging mob, rioters, domestic terrorists".

The demonstrators had different motives. Most of them did not have a precise plan, they followed the same as other demonstrations, only that this demonstration escalated. But there are reports that clearly show that the assault on the Capitol had been planned for some time, at least by some of these protesters. They evidently had some kind of overthrow plan. After all, the Capitol was not occupied on January 6th by chance, but precisely at the time when Joe Biden's election victory was about to be certified. This constitutional act, and with it Joe Biden as president, should be prevented. We also now know that there were also people who took part in the storming of the Capitol who clearly had terrorist intentions. At least some wanted to take hostages in the Capitol.

Despite these differences, is it a movement?

I would definitely see these people as a movement. First of all, they are all Trump supporters and agree that he won last November's presidential election. On the other hand, it is very clear that they come from a common ideological milieu. This milieu is dominated by QAnon, the so-called Q movement, which has become very strong in the last one to two years and represents an extreme segment within the Trump movement. This is a conspiracy ideological movement that mainly exists on the Internet. The essence of QAnon is the belief that the US government, and actually the entire establishment, is ruled by a satanic sect that seeks to protect a network of child molesters. As absurd as that is, part of that belief is that Trump is the figure of light fighting these satanic structures. Anyone who believes in such a thing can justify anything to prevent Trump from being defeated.

There was already talk of the danger of civil war in the USA before the 2016 presidential election. Is that a realistic fear?

I am convinced that there is a strong potential for violence in this movement. The fact that there have not yet been any major outbreaks of violence has to do with the fact that Trump has been in power so far. So far, there has been no reason for his supporters to use force against the government. On January 20th, however, his term of office was finally over, when a new president was sworn in. There will then be no more reason for the extreme parts of this movement to hold back. The second point is that you will continue to be convinced that his opponents are child molesters, satanists and enemies of the USA. And finally, the QAnon supporters are to a large extent heavily armed. This includes people who have been in the military or the police and know how to use weapons. That is a combination that may not lead to civil war – there are too few for that. But after the events of January 6th, we can be sure that the Trump movement will also create terror. The storm on the Capitol was not the end point, but the beginning of an extremist movement that will also be violent. What we saw on Wednesday was not yet terrorism – but rarely has a terrorist movement announced itself so spectacularly.

Do right-wing populist movements inevitably lead to what we saw in Washington, or are lasting, peaceful right-wing populist movements conceivable that do not want to delegitimize democracy?

Of course, there are also populist movements whose form at least fits into the democratic system, such as the Front National in France, which has already lost many elections and yet has no intention of transforming itself into a terrorist movement. Or the Swiss People's Party, which is integrated into Switzerland's political system. These parties do not reject democracy as such; they often demand more direct democracy. What they reject is liberal democracy. That's an important difference. This liberal element in Western democracies relates to the role of parliaments, the courts, the media and, last but not least, to the protection of minorities. It cannot be said that all right-wing populists are always and inevitably against democracy. This makes it too easy for their opponents.

Hubertus Volmer spoke to Peter Neumann