What does the CDU actually stand for? Since the end of the Merkel era, the party has been working on a new basic program. It should be available in the coming year. The first regional conferences will begin this Thursday, and three more will follow by the end of this month in Münster, Schkeuditz near Leipzig and Linstow (Mecklenburg-Western Pomerania). CDU Vice Carsten Linnemann leads the process. In an interview, he says what the future CDU should do, what true solidarity is and what influence the conferences still have.
ntv.de: Mr. Linnemann, this week will be exciting for the CDU. The first of four regional conferences begins in Pforzheim. It’s about the new policy. What do you hope to gain from these on-site visits?
Carsten Linnemann: It is always very important for a politician to listen to the grassroots, that is, to be close to the citizens. This is crucial for political success. Such a regional conference is an important seismograph to determine the weighting of the topics.
How big is the risk in Berlin of losing touch with the base?
Luckily, as a directly elected MP, I travel a lot in the constituency. And in Berlin I still get e-mails and telephone. That’s why the connection to the base is always there. But you also have to use it. Because Berlin and the constituency are completely different worlds. In the Berlin bubble, people are talking about whether the party should move to the right or left. Whether you need a strong state or a super-strong state. When I step out of this bubble, the citizens say to me: “I don’t give a damn, I want the state to work.”
I also wanted to ask you whether the CDU is moving further to the right.
Can you see it? No citizen in my constituency asks me that. They want to know how we can get inflation and the skilled worker problem under control, how we can live safely and secure the future of their children. You still want an answer from me, don’t you?
I’ll get to that in a moment. However, a lack of skilled workers is a good keyword. One answer is immigration. The CDU is rather restrictive. Do you get into a conflict when you’re writing a policy?
No, not at all – on the contrary. The good thing about a basic program is that you become aware of your own set of values and work on the political fields based on that. Take the year 2021. Around 530,000 people came to Germany from third countries. Of these, only 40,000 came to work. We are obviously more interesting for immigration into the social systems than into the labor market. It can’t stay like this. That means that with this quota we would need 5 million immigrants to get 400,000 into the labor market. It will not work. We are already reaching the limits of our infrastructure today. Immigration must be managed better overall. The influx of skilled workers often simply fails due to practical implementation.
Do you have an example?
In my constituency, I was approached by a Vietnamese restaurant owner who is looking for a chef. He doesn’t find one in Germany, but finds one in Vietnam. But he is not allowed to work in Germany because the German embassy in Vietnam saw that there were too many “pan-European” and Thai dishes on the restaurant’s menu and not enough Vietnamese. If that’s the reality in Germany, we can pack up.
How is such an experience reflected in the basic programme?
First of all, it hits my heart. I then called the Foreign Office and pulled out all the stops so that he could still come. At the moment it looks like it’s still working. I wish our authorities would act more according to common sense and less paragraph-riding.
That’s nice, but what are the consequences for the basic program?
It’s about an attitude of mind, how a modern political system must be constituted. And this is about a migration policy that differentiates. The specific texts are still being worked on. On the other hand, a charter of basic values is ready, in which we have laid down our foundation of values. The three most important points are: First, we orient ourselves first to the individual and do not take the collectivist approach, like left-wing parties in Germany. So we focus on equal opportunities instead of equality. Second, we understand human beings as part of a larger system that they cannot completely overlook. As the CDU, this makes us humble and relaxed at the same time. Because we can only give penultimate answers.
What do you mean by the “penultimate answer”?
What we know today can be supplemented or even superseded by new knowledge tomorrow. So politics is never static and certainly not omniscient. That is why politics can only ever give penultimate answers. This is why, for example, openness to technology is so important to us.
And the third point in the value foundation?
The point here is that we clearly separate solidarity and subsidiarity. First comes personal responsibility, and if you can’t take that, the community is there for you. If you pin down these three themes, you can stencil that over almost any theme. That is why I would like us to find concrete answers to the big issues. Even if not up to the seventh feed regulation.
What does that mean for the job market?
I am in favor of abolishing citizen income in its current form. The term alone is misleading because it suggests that everyone is automatically entitled to it. Basically, I would say that anyone who receives a benefit from the community of solidarity also has an obligation to pay. Provided, of course, that he is physically able to do so. This means that he must also accept a job if it is offered to him. Another example is my idea of an active pension: I would allow everyone who is of legal retirement age but still wants to work to work tax-free up to an exemption limit. In this way we would get hundreds of thousands into the labor market overnight.
After 16 years with Angela Merkel at the helm, there was a longing in the CDU to raise its profile. This is one of the reasons why you are working on the new basic programme. So now the question is: is the CDU becoming more conservative again?
That was exactly the problem, you no longer knew what the CDU stood for. My claim to the basic program is that a clear theme song based on the principles mentioned must come through. In addition, we stand by our three roots: conservative, liberal and Christian-social. I don’t think we should pit these three against each other.
But the way you have now expressed yourself about citizen income and immigration is clearly conservative and not social. There is a clear weighting.
I find this attribution to be problematic. Is it actually social to support people who could work with social benefits, while other people have to work every day to make these benefits possible at all? But let me give you another example that is perhaps clearer for our Christian-social roots: I think that when we retire we don’t do enough for everyone who can no longer work. The main beneficiaries of the pension at 63 were people who came from the administration. But those who worked hard in life and were no longer able to work for physical reasons, it was different for them. Only ten percent of roofers are still on the roof over the age of 60.
Then it is de facto a pension cut, the left also says that.
Exactly. Starting there would be important. Or in the care. The people who work their whole lives and no longer know whether they can afford care. At the moment we have co-payments of around 3000 euros a month. We have to relieve exactly those who have worked their whole lives. So that you don’t have to worry about them anymore.
There is said to be a new law for transsexuals, under which minors over the age of 14 should be able to change their gender identity without their parents’ consent. Adults should be able to do this without examination and expert opinion. Discrimination should be reduced – do you go along with that? Or is that too liberal?
Eliminating discrimination is the right thing to do. However, with what the traffic light has presented, it overshoots the mark by far. This is especially true when it comes to children and young people. The Bundestag has expert opinions that warn against leaving such far-reaching decisions to minors. Especially during puberty, many young people are insecure and vulnerable. We must not do anything that fuels this uncertainty even further. But one more thing: I have not received an email on this subject. We have to be careful that priorities are not set in this country that have little to do with the reality of people’s lives. But what I get a lot of emails about is Paragraph 218, which the traffic light wants to completely abolish. The CDU will counter that. Protection of life belongs to the C of the CDU like hardly any other topic.
What role does the C, i.e. the reference to Christianity, still play? Churches are becoming less and less popular.
The C in the CDU has nothing to do with the church. We derive our principles from the C, including the Christian image of man, but also values such as personality, subsidiarity and solidarity, which in turn come from Christian social teaching.
If it’s all about values, do you even need a god anymore?
Me, yes. And many members of the CDU will think the same way. On the other hand, everyone who shares our values is welcome in our party.
In the United States there is trench warfare between conservatives and left-liberals, and there is often a great deal of excitement about supposedly left-wing ideology that dictates or taboos all sorts of things. In Germany, gender is discussed emotionally. Do you want to get involved? Or do you set your priorities differently?
The gender issue upsets many people because they feel that the state wants to educate them. We don’t need a state like that. We know something similar from the debate about whether it’s allowed to play songs like “Layla” in public places, whether it’s still allowed to dress up as an Indian or watch Winnetou films. This restricts freedom of expression.
How hard is it to get all of this into one program?
The coordination is not without. It really brings in the whole breadth of society. This goes from the Central Committee of Catholics to the trade unions. It is my goal that we really let fresh air in here and let the width have their say. Putting it all together is a real challenge.
And in the end there is a compromise that nobody likes?
It’s less about a compromise and more about clear political offers from the “CDU” brand. At the end of the day, I want everyone to say: I also want what’s in the basic program. I’ll take that with me. And regardless of whether someone is involved with the CDA or the Mittelstandsunion, whether with the Young Union or the Seniors’ Union. That is my claim.
Do the participants in the regional conferences still have a chance to bring in completely new points?
But of course. That’s what the regional conferences are for. A lot can still happen until the end of September, when the positions are fixed.
Volker Petersen spoke to Carsten Linnemann