RWE Renewables boss Wunschel in the “climate laboratory”: “The figures confirm the transformation to a green company”

If RWE successful is, the rises Pulse many People. Because the North Rhine-Westphalian energy group is a symbol in Germany for the coal business, the destruction of nature and the environment and climate change. Katja Wunschel sees it differently. Lignite mining was just as much a political decision as nuclear power, says the head of RWE Renewables Europe and Australia in ntv’s “Climate Laboratory”. In the meantime, however, RWE is well on the way to becoming a green company: “We are investing 15 billion euros in green technologies in Germany by 2030, and 50 billion euros worldwide. This is our contribution to climate protection,” says Wunschel in an interview. And in the eyes of the CEO, not only RWE is making amazing progress in this transformation: “I’ve been working in the field of renewables for about 15 years and when I look back at this time, I have reason to be optimistic,” she says. Because approvals that you would otherwise have waited two years for would suddenly come after twelve months. “We see that in other countries too.”

ntv.de: When RWE raised its profit forecast, there was a storm of indignation. Every single cent belongs socialized, it was said for example orthat inflation and the climate crisis could apparently also be cool. Do you feel treated unfairly?

Katja Wunschel: I know such tweets, but that doesn’t match my perception. I’m also very active on social media, especially on LinkedIn. When I post our projects, activities or our contribution to the expansion of renewable energies there, the reactions are consistently positive. We are also looking for many new colleagues because we want to implement many more projects. Their feedback is also positive.

They also want a job at RWE.

That’s a great company too.

But this feedback affects the renewable projects. RWE continues to mine lignite and stands for the clearing of the Hambach Forest.

If you look at our earnings and the preliminary business outlook, you can see that only 10 percent of our profits come from coal and nuclear. Our figures confirm that RWE is transforming itself into a green group and investing significantly in new technologies. 90 percent of our investments go into renewable projects.

That’s the accusation: you played a key role in leading us into this crisis with lignite mining and are now benefiting from the turnaround and the renewable business.

Producing electricity from lignite and nuclear energy were political decisions. Now, after nuclear energy, we are also phasing out coal, and we at RWE are the only company that has said: we will do this early by 2030.

So when there are protests that are explicitly aimed at RWE, don’t you feel addressed?

I feel addressed by the task of expanding renewable energies. This is my contribution: How can I implement more projects faster in the eleven countries that I look after? Because we need more renewable energy on the grid. RWE gives me the support for this. We are investing 15 billion euros in green technologies in Germany by 2030, and 50 billion euros worldwide. This is our contribution to climate protection: If we switch on renewable energies, we can switch off coal. The faster we can do this, the sooner we can create the green transformation that we need in Europe, the world and Germany.

Why does only a third of the sum end up in Germany?

As with any large corporation, our growth portfolio is very diversified. We have different technologies and different countries and we have to look very carefully at where we can invest. That has a lot to do with regulation, because we need space and projects so that we can ultimately build.

Is regulation the reason why RWE in Germany – as of June 2023 – only has a solar capacity of 26 megawatts, while in the USA it is a multiple of 3090 megawatts?

In Germany, we have previously focused primarily on onshore wind and only added solar about two years ago. We have come a long way in this respect: one project has been completed and four more are in the construction phase. So we’ll soon have five online. We are also working on a very innovative project, the so-called Agri-PV: We are looking specifically at what form of photovoltaics there can be in combination with agriculture, because we see great potential here. This will continue to be the case, because solar is one of the major growth areas for our renewable energies.

But why are you doing solar only now? Wasn’t that lucrative enough before?

Coming from an onshore focus, we have re-laid our cards. We look at the possibilities in Europe, which countries with their growth path enable which projects. Two years ago we decided to do solar in Germany.

When it comes to wind power, you can also see that RWE does more in countries like Great Britain than in Germany.

England is very attractive offshore. The framework conditions are also improving on land and in the solar sector. We’re building a big one onshore project, there will be another one soon. And we will build solar parks. Just like in Germany, we are pushing ahead with the expansion of all technologies and are looking for many new colleagues to implement these projects.

If the general conditions in Germany are right now, does that have something to do with the traffic lights?

Absolutely. Basically, the expansion of renewable energies worldwide has reached a level that has not been seen in the last ten years. And if we zoom in, it has to be said very clearly that Germany is playing a leading role, tackling something and changing things. The federal government has set itself very ambitious goals. It will be a long and probably bumpy road, you have to be realistic about it. But especially in comparison with the other countries for which I am responsible, many points are being set – for example with the availability of space, how approvals can be accelerated or bureaucracy reduced. But we’re still a long way from where we need to be. At the moment, 1.8 wind turbines are being erected in Germany every day, i.e. around two.

And we need six.

Exactly. In the PV sector, the plans are similarly ambitious. If we in Germany want to implement the federal government’s expansion goals, about two football pitches per year will have to be added to the open space systems per municipality. Any community, in addition to the roofs. That’s substantial.

Especially in the wind sector, one rarely hears positive voices when it comes to permits. Or does Germany only do well in comparison to other countries?

Neither nor. We just have to see where we come from. At the moment we have a development time of at least eight years for one project. That was ten years times five years ago, so the situation has gotten worse. For onshore wind power and solar projects, however, the probability of realization lies largely with the communities and municipalities. This is where the laws passed are implemented. We have to take a close look to see whether the outstanding public interest in renewable energies, which the federal government decided, is applied locally and also that decisions should come much faster. But I have been working in the field of renewable energies for about 15 years and when I look back at this time I have reason to be optimistic because things are moving. Not fast enough yet. If I could, I would wish for the LNG speed for the renewables, no question. But you also have to appreciate what has happened in the last 18 months. We see that in other countries too: Approvals for which you previously had to wait two years suddenly come after twelve months.

In the offshore sector in particular, however, there are again voices saying that the expansion targets by 2030 are actually unattainable. Is that also the case at RWE?

We will achieve our goals. They are ambitious, we revise them every year. RWE has just secured additional land for a total of 1.6 gigawatts in the North Sea. Slight optimism is also in order for onshore and solar. Because we see that the development time is shortening and there are still seven years to go until the first major milestone in 2030. It is quite possible that we will step it up a notch. Last year nobody thought LNG speed was possible.

Where do you still see pitfalls?

We need more space and more federal states that say we want to make this space available more quickly. We’re already seeing that with some, but not yet with all of them.

Which ones does this concern?

It is probably known that the northern states are faster onshore than the southern states. Conversely, there are also southern countries that are setting a good example, particularly when it comes to PV expansion. They simply removed two hurdles and simplified implementation. There are also increasing instructions in the authorities so that the employees know how to approve a solar project with all new laws and guidelines. Because of course they have to be put in a position to be able to handle this flood of applications. The other day I got a call from an employee who said: We have the approval – after twelve months! These are moments to be happy about. We need more of that, but there hasn’t been anything like this in the last ten years.

Clara Pfeffer and Christian Herrmann spoke to Katja Wunschel. The conversation has been shortened and smoothed for better understanding.