Author, moderator and influencer with intellect: Sophie Passmann is our guest! She and Barbara ask each other urgent and recurring, but also long-awaited questions.
Barbara: Sophie, what question are you most worried about right now?
Sophie: When does all this shit end?
Ah, Corona. Naturally.
Which question would be yours?
Is the tone of voice sharper in general or is it just me who can hear it?
Well, when I look at how people argue on the internet, what a stupid way people who actually want the same thing turn on and insult each other … I can’t keep up with that either.
Even you not? My hope was that you could answer my questions about social media.
I can try.
So radicalization in dialogue is increasing, right?
People who use social media are usually strong in their opinions and are not afraid to say: You mustn’t do that because … But if someone like that accidentally posts a wrong photo, you can watch these influencers Go from being denounced to being denounced in seconds. This is the moment when they switch to the other side and understand.
Although the club of understanding Twitter users is comparatively exclusive. The desire to denounce unfiltered prevails by far.
It wasn’t that long ago that I was like that too. That I made fun of people where, with the knowledge of today, I would say: I would have preferred not to have done it. In retrospect, I ask myself: Who benefits from it? I notice that my public has made me softer and more understanding. Because everyone is trying not to be a shitty person. Some are very unsuccessful, but at least they try.
Interesting, we react completely differently to this comparatively new culture: It makes you milder, me more radical. And above all: more cramped. Actually, I don’t have a speech filter, and that’s what defines me. Don’t get it wrong: I think it’s good to be sensitized to things. But the feeling that every one of my sayings could be thrown around my ears by now unsettles even a person like me.
When exactly what happens?
Well When I get angry emails in large numbers and devastating Twitter posts because I say on the “NDR Talk Show”: I have now gone among the chicken owners. But that would be called chicken owners, they say. I tense up: Damn it, one more thing that I have to think about because otherwise I come across as a conservative old man.
But what if you don’t?
You tell me
Nothing. This left Twitter bubble, in which people tell what the world should be like, is hardly noticed in real life. So nothing can happen to you – the cancellation is almost, never really. It’s actually just annoying, and someone like you should look over it with verve.
That’s the most encouraging thing I’ve heard in a long time. And it would be really difficult for me to suddenly become someone else.
And who are you?
A rather apolitical person. I have a Teflon coating and so far I have slid through life wonderfully without anyone putting large boulders in my way. I’m not as strong as everyone always thinks. I don’t stand for any group, and I don’t see myself as a feminist either.
But you live self-determined and independently.
Absolutely.
Pretty feminist if you ask me.
But there we have it again: if I say that, I’ll be sorted into a group. And that’s where my feeling doesn’t want to go.
But that’s just your limit in your head, nobody forces you to make a commitment. And yet I understand you very well because, as a declared net feminist, I am one of those who create this barrier in your head. From my point of view, that’s the only thing you really have to do.
What now?
Admit to yourself that this barrier really exists and only you are responsible for it. You can also moderate them away quite well elsewhere.
Which do you mean?
Well, you say no one has ever put obstacles in your way. I believe you, that you perceive it that way. But I also believe: you decided to ignore stones and play the game. More sensitive, or shall we rather say: less well coated women would certainly have stumbled upon these stones. That’s why I predict: You have a great career ahead of you.
Another good news!
I think you are a feminist by mistake, without any sense of mission. That’s why I still don’t quite understand that you have such a problem with the term. Feminist is the coolest thing you can be today.
How so?
Because it’s cool to want a fairer world. Because a great woman like Beyoncé is a feminist, because a great series like “Fleabag” is feminist, because all the good authors you want to read are feminist.
What brings us to you. You are one of these authors, you are a poetry slammer, radio presenter, satirist … What else?
An internet phenomenon. I read about myself far too often.
Above all, I think you are incredibly smart, and that’s why you have all my fascination and admiration. And you are the new voice and the new face of feminism, at just 27 years old. The question arises: How did you get like this?
I’ll take the question as a proxy for all women; I think something really great is happening regardless of age. We women have been underestimated for centuries. The advantage of this: We were able to acquire a sovereignty, a coolness, a multi-spirituality unobserved, which is now suddenly emerging because women are taking place today. And that’s why I love each other, I sit in a room with lots of women and think: How can you all be so smart, so funny, so quick-witted!
That is exactly my opinion. I love working with women! But why can’t men be like that?
Because they never had the space to secretly get cool. They had to take care of things and make decisions and meet great expectations. But now we are in the spotlight and see who there is great to discover.
Has everyone noticed that already? For example in the entertainment industry?
Of course not. Accepting women for what they are and what they can do not have historically been learned. Men are always the prototype human.
How do you mean?
Well, you see a man and you think: a person. And that’s how he is judged, about his being human. A woman, on the other hand, is always viewed as a woman, there is a filter with women assessment parameters. And I am convinced: this also happens to you. You just decided not to let it make you unfree. And neither do I, so I still go on stage and endure it, and I can endure to be seen as someone who wants to take something away from men. And why are we doing this? So that your daughter doesn’t have to think about this nonsense for a second in 20 years.
So! And then we don’t have to worry about whether a female chancellor would be better than a chancellor …
How do you see that?
Well, we had a woman at the helm for 16 years. As far as I’m concerned, a man could answer it again.
16 years are nothing. As far as I am concerned, we can talk about a male head of government again in 160 years.
Now seriously?
I’m just following your reasoning. But it is not just about the temporal consideration of masculine rule. Because just because Merkel is a woman you don’t have to find her good, that would be pure representational feminism.
I leave it that way. Is there actually a question that you can no longer hear?
Oh yes: “Ms. Passmann, when will you finally get your late night show?”
Yikes
It’s such an intimate career question. As if you had to discuss your salary in public. Nobody has a right to an answer, I think.
The question will soon be replaced by: “Ms. Passmann, when will you have your first child?”
Nobody dares to ask that, because the urban legend exists that I’m a lesbian. Not true, but somehow that is assumed. What’s your hate question?
“Ms. Schöneberger, how do you get children and a career under one roof?” A completely relevant question, but at least as private and personal as the one about your next career move.
Plus: Why are they asking you of all people and not Kai Pflaume? Or the single parent cashier at Lidl?
I like to mention them when asked: “Who are your female role models?” The Lidl cashier who sews her life to the edge and doesn’t worry about it! Or any woman who has three children at home! I work on a completely privileged basis. Even if it sometimes looks like I have an event until late in the evening, but of course I go home at six in the morning so that I can be home for breakfast and put the meal on the table at lunchtime. In most families it works like this: the woman works and throws the majority of the household, the man announces that he is about to have “the big conference call” or “an important business meeting”. And what do the children think?
N / A?
Papa makes the money and Mama makes the house nice. But, no complaint, I also get my strength from the biological advantage of women, that they can always do anything.
I don’t think that’s biological. I think that’s cultivated. My mother raised us kids pretty much on an equal footing, but strangely, only we girls had to vacuum clean. My brother never. Feminine character. We know that you wipe kitchen countertops after use. I’m not so sure about men.
Not even with your boyfriend?
Not even with that. And it is neither blind nor cognitively restricted. To ask?
Yes. What would you like to be asked that you’ve never been asked?
Phew Super heavy.
Yes or? A popular journalist question that you never know the answer to.
But. I know what: “What are you wearing today, Ms. Passmann?” I’m so jealous of those red carpet actresses whose clothes you care about. I try so hard with my outfit, but for me everyone thinks, superficial questions don’t work, something must be feminist-rich. And then I stand there and think: Really? Palina is allowed to talk about her dress – and not me?
Would you like it?
Sure, of course! I also want to be superficial!
But there it is again, the general uncertainty: How timely is it to ask a woman about her outfit and thus reduce it to it? It’s complicated. What I would also like to know: What task would you set me for my future?
It’s easy. I want you to start calling yourself a “feminist” right now.
But didn’t we find out that I am already?
Most of all, you said you wouldn’t call yourself that. And that’s a shame. It would have enormous charisma if a mega-prominent and independent woman like you would wear this label.
I’ll stick with it: labels are not my thing. But I promise that I will continue to live self-determined and independently and that I will encourage other women to do the same. One important question at the end, Ms. Passmann: What are you wearing today?
A blazer from Acne, COS pants, a polo shirt from Yoox and boots that I just unpacked today, I don’t even know who they are from. Sorry, I wasn’t prepared for the question.
STEPHAN BARTELSThe recorder of the conversation asked his 16-year-old stepdaughter if she was a feminist – “Sure, what else!” He thinks it’s good.
SOPHIE PASSMANN participated in her first poetry slam when she was 15. After graduating from high school, she volunteered at the radio and wrote columns. Since her book “Old white men” and their spectacular 15 minutes “Men’s worlds” on Pro7 she is considered a pioneer of net feminism. Your current book “Complete goosebumps” went straight to number 1 on the bestseller list.
This article originally appeared in Barbara issue no. 06/2021.