The Taliban are back. After the withdrawal of the US-led NATO troops, the Islamists quickly regained control of Afghanistan. How could the West fail so disastrously? The Swiss ethnologist Micheline Centlivres-Demont (91) researched half her life in the crisis state. Opposite Blick, she explains how it could have come to this.
What remains of Afghanistan after the last 20 years of war?
Micheline Centlivres-Demont: Afghanistan is occupied by the Taliban. You must now form a government. The efforts of the last decades are largely being reversed. I hope, however, that the great advances in education, health, roads and infrastructures will continue.
The Taliban are trying to get rid of their radical reputation. Do you believe them?
The generation of the Taliban is not the same as when it was last seized in the 1990s. Afghanistan has become more urban. People have cell phones and can get information on the Internet. There are more people who are educated. The Taliban are now faced with the mammoth task of establishing internal order. So they want to improve their reputation. Ultimately, they also want to be recognized by neighboring countries as a legitimate government.
What about the situation of women in Afghanistan?
That’s the big question right now. The Taliban govern with so-called decrees. These are not based on a constitution or laws. It remains to be seen how the new generation of Taliban deals with women. I hope that the higher level of education will bear fruit.
Why has the West never managed to build a functioning state in Afghanistan?
The West never understood Afghanistan. The government on which the West relied was not credible to the Afghans and was also not respected by them. In principle, it was nothing more than the government of the capital Kabul. The West simply buttered in tons of money, but paid too little attention to the fact that there was enormous corruption. All over. In the government, in the administration, in the police, in the army. In the countryside, in the valleys and villages, there were always different power structures that functioned independently of this.
So was the power of the central government just an illusion of the West?
The West wanted to build a government based on the Western model, but that did not match the circumstances and needs on the ground.
The Taliban have brought the whole country back under their control within a very short time. Why didn’t the Afghan military defend itself against this?
This is a good example of the failure of the West. On the one hand, the Afghan army was viewed as externally controlled. The Taliban, on the other hand, emerged from Afghan structures. The soldiers of the Afghan army did not believe in the central government themselves and did not want to fight their own compatriots. In addition, the Afghan army has always exaggerated when it comes to the number of deployable soldiers. Then she got more money from the west.
Can the Afghans still govern themselves after decades of outside rule?
Indeed, the question is whether they can still do that. I have made countless research trips to Afghanistan with my husband since 1962. I’ve known all the governments since then. I was there also during the occupation by the Soviet Union, during the last Taliban rule and during the occupation by the US-led NATO alliance. I have not yet met the new Taliban – I was there for the last time in 2015. There is currently no alternative to the Taliban. The other ethnic groups have too little power. This also applies to the terrorists of the Islamic State (IS) and al Qaeda who are hostile to the Taliban. It should not be forgotten that there are numerous conflicts among the many different ethnic groups. Many Afghans trust the Taliban to be able to restore order. That was the case back in 1996, when they took power from the mujahideen. I was in Jalalabad at the time. The residents there were eagerly awaiting the Taliban.
How did you experience the country and the people in Afghanistan?
We were always very welcome. We got to know all social classes. Most of the time we lived in small villages. Our relationship with the Afghans has always been characterized by mutual respect and trust.
How do you see the future? What do you wish for the people in Afghanistan?
Although the Taliban are now in power, I hope the needs of Afghans are better understood. I am curious to see how the opium cultivation situation will develop. The last time the Taliban were in power, they took rigorous action against it. Unfortunately, they have since discovered the opium trade as a source of income to finance their operations. Fortunately, non-governmental organizations like the Red Cross and others will stay in Afghanistan. At least that was the case under the last Taliban government. Help is certainly still needed in the education and health sectors.
Central Asia is their second home
Ethnologist Micheline Centlivres-Demont (91) has visited Afghanistan countless times since 1962. Together with her husband Pierre Centlivres (88), former head of the Institute for Ethnology at the University of Neuchâtel, she also edited several books. The couple’s research trips were supported by the Swiss National Science Foundation, among others. Centlivres-Demont received his doctorate in 1971 from the University of Neuchâtel.
Ethnologist Micheline Centlivres-Demont (91) has visited Afghanistan countless times since 1962. Together with her husband Pierre Centlivres (88), former head of the Institute for Ethnology at the University of Neuchâtel, she also edited several books. The couple’s research trips were supported by the Swiss National Science Foundation, among others. Centlivres-Demont received his doctorate in 1971 from the University of Neuchâtel.