Thuringians will elect a new state parliament in four months – CDU candidate Mario Voigt wants to defeat AfD leader Björn Höcke. In an interview with ntv.de, he says how he wants to achieve this and why he believes in his chance despite being behind in the polls.
ntv.de: Mr. Voigt, you have a big goal: to become Prime Minister of Thuringia. There are still four months until the election on September 1st. In surveys, your CDU is at around 20 percent, the AfD at around 30. What still makes you optimistic?
Mario Voigt: The people in Thuringia don’t want “business as usual” with this left-green government. They expect things to move forward in Thuringia: the economy will pick up, classes will take place again and they can feel safe again. Against this background, many in the country say: The CDU should do it. That’s why there will be a duel between the CDU and AfD in the summer. We are fit for that.
They have long since joined the election campaign and have many appointments, from meetings with medium-sized businesses to playing skat in Altenburger Land, the home of the card game. How are the conversations going?
Very open and direct. People have the feeling that our country is on the decline. In terms of business, we slipped from the Champions League to a relegation zone. Berlin and Erfurt politicians don’t care about things that are really important. Legalizing cannabis, but not getting medicine into pharmacies – that annoys people. My job is to present a concrete plan for Thuringia, but also to show: I see you and your issues. I receive a lot of encouragement for this.
Your TV duel with Björn Höcke was now two weeks ago. How are you feeling today? Do you feel like a winner?
It was right to do the TV duel. The reactions confirmed this for me. Many people have said to me: It is good and important as a democrat to have the courage to face this. Höcke has wobbled on key issues and shown that he can be defeated. This is encouraging for many in the Free State. He would have had the opportunity to explain his concepts. But he couldn’t even remember what he wrote in his own book.
Why are so many people in Thuringia running after a right-wing extremist like Björn Höcke?
Because the frustration is great. Many are fed up. Your impression is: Politics doesn’t make life better, but rather more complicated and more difficult. That’s why we as a Union want to make people’s lives easier again.
How come?
For example, with a large-scale offensive against the bureaucracy. We want to implement an eight-week approved guarantee. If there is no decision on an application after eight weeks, it is considered approved. Every tenth lesson in Thuringia is now canceled. This frustrates the families. I understand that too, because I am a father of two myself. We want a guarantee of employment for all teachers who pass the second state examination.
Another topic is citizen’s money. There was a 25 percent increase in two years, and that was during a recession. The impression is that the hard-working people who get up in the morning are being fleeced, and on the other hand, new welfare state promises are constantly being made. Last year we spent ten billion euros more on social spending and one billion less on education and research. Lieschen Müller can put two and two together.
But the AfD’s core issue is migration.
The topic plays a major role for citizens. We have irregular migration in large numbers. And it has to be stopped because municipalities and society are overwhelmed. In Thuringia, we as the CDU follow our words with actions, and we show that at the local level. The first district administrator to introduce the payment card across Germany was a CDU district administrator. The district administrator who enforced a work requirement in shared accommodation was a CDU district administrator. The AfD district administrator in Sonneberg has not yet received anything in this direction. This shows us: The AfD talks a lot about problems, but doesn’t deliver.
There will be local elections in Thuringia in less than four weeks, on May 26th. The AfD could celebrate success there too. How important is this election?
This is already a run-up to the state elections and we are very optimistic. We won the first important local elections in the Saale-Orla district in January. That was a duel CDU / AfD in a Höcke stronghold.
The CDU prevailed in the Saale-Orla district because all AfD opponents voted for the CDU candidate in the runoff election. Isn’t that exactly what the AfD wants? Alone against the other parties?
Oh, we won’t allow this victim role and this whiny tone from the AfD. In Thuringia, many people are asking themselves the question: How can things move forward again? But also, who will stop them? Do you think people want a country with Björn Höcke’s image? You have already experienced ten years of standstill with red-red-green. They want positive change. If an active civil society says in runoff elections: We are now supporting the CDU candidate, then I find that understandable. Because as the CDU we stand at the center of society.
Behind this there is always the question: How right-wing is Thuringia really?
Thuringia is the most beautiful federal state and is conservative. The left-wing minority government has neither a majority in the state nor in the state parliament. People are ruled by people with an ideology that they overwhelmingly reject in the depths of their hearts. Their criticism has nothing to do with right-wing extremism. This half is really just frustrated and wants something to change. Take the heating law: This is an ideological energy policy that worries the average Thuringian. The wealth he has built up over the years is jeopardized with the snap of his fingers. Many people ask themselves: “How can I send a warning signal?” I understand that. Unlike others, we as a Union also offer an answer.
But how do you differentiate yourself from the AfD? You too are critical of Islam and want to limit immigration.
There is a substantial difference between the AfD and the CDU on this topic in particular. The left-wing parties want: everyone in. The AfD says: Everyone out. The CDU says: We are a cosmopolitan country, but we don’t hang out the door to our apartment. We decide for ourselves who comes to us and how many. We have to differentiate between urgently needed skilled workers, for example in nursing, and illegal immigrants. As the CDU, we are making a very clear offer. With safe third countries in which the recognition procedures take place and with clear border protection. The AfD wants to take people with German passports out of Germany. This is something completely different.
Federal President Christian Wulff, a CDU politician, once said, “Islam belongs to Germany.” The CDU’s basic program now states: An Islam that does not share our values does not belong to Germany. Why this fussing around? Why can’t it stick to the Wulff dictum?
It is right that the Union is putting its finger in the wound here. A political Islam that is financed from abroad and preaches values that do not define our country does not belong to Germany. When people on German streets proclaim a caliphate, as they did at the weekend in Hamburg, when they place Sharia law above German law, then we clearly oppose this. We are the only party that conducts this debate in a differentiated manner.
That sounds more like general suspicion.
No, not at all. We extend our hand to the millions of Muslims in Germany who contribute to the success of our country. These are the people who are most upset about this extremism. We must clearly confront those who do not share our values and even fight against them. Other parties are avoiding this issue. We say it quite clearly: There are house rules, the guiding culture. This goes beyond constitutional patriotism. It consists of our culture and our customs. This is an invitation, but also a requirement. One thing is clear: people who demand caliphate and sharia on our streets will get a one-way ticket out of Germany.
One of the new parties is the Alliance Sahra Wagenknecht, BSW. Are you actually happy about it because they are stealing votes from the AfD?
Above all, this shows me that there is a lot of frustration, but also that the AfD can be beaten.
You are not ruling out a coalition with the BSW. But the BSW emerged from the left and has major overlaps. But you absolutely don’t want a coalition with the left. How does that fit together?
What I hear from BSW when it comes to migration is much more true to life than what the left says. Otherwise, the following applies to Thuringia: The BSW is programmatically a black box. There is no concrete content offer yet. The personnel carousel ranges from conservative SPD people to a conservative former left. Even a former CDU man is there.
We note: The CDU could form a coalition with the BSW or the Greens, but not willingly. What is your desired coalition?
My goal is for the CDU to become the strongest force. Coalition debates do little to help people with their specific concerns. With their ideological politics, the Greens belong in the opposition. The voters decide what is possible after the election. Polls are not election results.
The federal CDU is calling on Chancellor Olaf Scholz to provide more decisive military support for Ukraine. Thuringians are extremely skeptical about aid to Ukraine. Where are they standing?
Ukraine must defend itself, we agree on that. But at the same time we also need more diplomatic efforts. There is a saying: “Imagine that there is war and no one goes – then the war will come to you.” Putin lied to everyone. A dictator who has people killed in his country and even in Germany cannot be a partner. Everyone I talk to understands that. We know exactly what will happen in Ukraine if Putin wins. Navalny and other murders show what happens on a large scale. This will lead to a huge movement of refugees. According to estimates, four million Ukrainians could come to Germany. That’s why it’s in our own interest to have a good strategy.
Should Germany import Russian gas again? Can Putin become a normal partner again?
Russia has always been a partner of Germany. But Putin will only ever use energy as an instrument for his interests. That’s why we would do well to use many energy sources to reduce Germany’s dependence and make energy cheaper again. But please, we were obviously lied to by our own economics minister about nuclear power. That’s why nuclear power is also in our CDU policy program. It must remain an option.
But the question was about gas.
Different sources make perfect sense.
Also gas from Russia?
Last year, around 15 percent of European gas imports came from Russia. Cheap energy is a central issue for our industrial location. But now we are in a war situation.
At the CDU federal party conference next week you will decide on the new basic program. You could also propose Friedrich Merz to run for chancellor, right?
Friedrich Merz is doing an excellent job. And we have an agreed procedure and I think that’s a good thing. The party leaders of the CDU and CSU will make a proposal after the summer break. The regional associations will certainly also have a say. The Union is going into the election campaign as a unit and we shouldn’t change anything about that.
Who would you prefer? Merz or Söder?
We’re having a very good team game in the Union right now. We are the only Christian Democratic party in Europe that is stable at over 30 percent. I am convinced that we will come to a good solution together.
With local elections, European elections and state elections, you have a busy year ahead of you. How many minced bread rolls do you need per week to stay fit?
You’ll laugh, I’m now offered one at every other appointment. In this respect, I have to pay a little attention to my diet plan. But as a Thuringian you breathe away that.
Volker Petersen spoke to Mario Voigt