Ukraine discussion at Illner
“We want Russia to leave us alone”
By Marko Schlichting
2/4/2022 3:49 am
In the Ukraine crisis, the signs point to negotiations. Chancellor Olaf Scholz wants to meet with Russian President Vladimir Putin in the next few days. A possible Russian escalation is also a topic for Maybrit Illner on ZDF on Thursday evening.
There is a lot of movement in the current Ukraine crisis. Russian soldiers have marched to the Ukrainian border, Germany has sidelined itself in recent weeks. The last steps taken by the German government were not really taken seriously. The mayor of Kiev, Wladimir Klitschko, described the announced delivery of 5,000 helmets as an “absolute joke”.
Now, however, the federal government seems poised to act. Chancellor Olaf Scholz announced talks with US President Biden and Russian President Putin on ZDF on Wednesday evening. A trip to Washington and Moscow is imminent. Meanwhile, the United States is sending soldiers to the region, and President Biden is threatening Putin with tough countermeasures if the situation escalates further. The question is: What does Putin actually want? The guests on the talk show Maybrit Illner on ZDF will try to find an answer on Thursday evening.
Martin Schulz is a connoisseur of European politics. The former President of the EU Parliament first explains the matter with the helmets: The previous federal government decided not to deliver deadly weapons to crisis areas. Ukraine needed helmets. The CDU foreign policy expert Norbert Röttgen also believes that helmets were initially the right solution. “Ukraine needs weapons, but not from us,” he says. The country is threatened. “With more than 130,000 soldiers, Russia has assembled an army capable of invading, and Ukraine has the right to defend itself,” explains Röttgen. However, Germany has special opportunities for talks with Russia’s President Putin. Röttgen: “If we delivered weapons, we would destroy these opportunities to influence.”
Green boss Omid Nouripour sees it similarly. The ultimate goal must be that there would be no war in Europe, and Germany must do everything possible at the moment not to provoke the Russian side unnecessarily. However, he also demands: “We must make it clear that we will not let further Russian aggression go and that this will have a hard price.”
However, the political scientist and security expert Ulrike Franke would consider arms deliveries to Ukraine to be the right thing to do. They can protect the country and act as a deterrent to Russia. Arms supplies could drive up the cost of a Russian attack. In this way it could be possible for Russia to reconsider the matter.
Russian scientist: “Do not want a hot phase”
But does Russia actually want to attack Ukraine? The Russian political scientist Vladislav Belov has a clear answer: “No.” The scientific director of the Europa Institute of the Russian Academy of Sciences in Moscow explains that the only goal is Russian security. It cannot be that NATO missiles are stationed in countries like Poland or in the Baltic States that are threatening Russian cities. Putin wanted to negotiate this with the United States. So far they have refused. “You froze all the dialogues,” says Below. “Now we have finally succeeded in bringing the West to the negotiating table.”
For the Green Omid Nouripour, that seems illogical. “If a country has a problem with a second country, why is it attacking a third country?” he asks. An invasion of Ukraine is not planned at all, says Below. “Russia is not interested in a hot phase.” If Russia had wanted to occupy Ukraine, Russia would have done so long ago, Below is certain: “Putin has no doubts that Ukraine is a separate state.” However, the Russian President is of the opinion that the “post-Soviet space” has to overcome existing crises.
CDU foreign policy expert Norbert Röttgen believes he sees other motives in Putin’s actions. Putin disagrees with the order that emerged after the Cold War. “He sees Russia marginalized. All around him, people are demanding democratic self-determination. It’s a threat to his power.” In addition, Putin does not take the European Union seriously. She is divided and divided, and that’s why he’s trying to set countries against each other.
“We must stop the escalation”
Martin Schulz sees it the same way. That’s why he demands that it should first be clarified who actually wants to conduct the negotiations with Putin. A possible partner could be the Organization for Security and Co-operation (OSCE). The fact that Chancellor Scholz now wants to travel to the USA and Russia is a good sign. “The Russians don’t take the EU seriously as an institution, but the strong member states like Germany and France do. That’s why I believe that a Franco-German initiative could be a very useful process.”
It is important for Schulz to stop the current escalation in Russia. And he points to the problem of possible economic sanctions. According to Schulz, Russia is not defenseless. The country is not only an important gas supplier, but also the third largest oil exporter in the world.
The Ukrainian publisher Kateryna Mishchenko points to a completely different problem. It’s not so much about Putin. For her it is important what Germany and Europe want: “We see that business is unfortunately often much more important than the promised European values and principles.” What Ukraine is demanding in this context is clear, says Mishchenko: “We don’t want a war. We want to build up our country. And we want Russia to leave us alone!”