Ukraine Talk at “Markus Lanz”
“Putin is a man who will not back down”
By Marko Schlichting
5/11/2022 3:03 am
For several weeks there has been a dispute in Germany about whether the war in Ukraine can be ended by further arms deliveries or by immediate diplomatic talks. In “Markus Lanz” on ZDF, Green Party politician Hofreiter and doctor Pohlmeier argue about the behavior towards Russia.
There is no end in sight to the war in southern and eastern Ukraine. Fighting between the Russian attackers and the Ukrainian defenders continues unabated. Even if experts fear that the war could last for years, there are discussions in Germany about its possible end. There are two sides to this. One demands the immediate start of peace negotiations, the other wants to put Ukraine in a better negotiating position beforehand by supplying heavy weapons.
Both camps met for a discussion on Tuesday evening on the ZDF talk show “Markus Lanz”. On the one hand is Lars Pohlmeier. He is chairman of the German section of the “Doctors for the Prevention of Nuclear War” association, which was founded at the height of the peace protests in 1980 by medical professionals from the USA and the former Soviet Union. The organization was awarded the Nobel Peace Prize in 1985.
On the other side is Anton Hofreiter, a politician from the Greens. His party was also part of the peace movement in the 1980s. Realpolitik has now caught up with the Greens. Hofreiter is committed to supporting Ukraine with arms deliveries, while Pohlmeier, whose wife is from Russia, wants immediate peace talks.
“More diplomacy instead of more weapons”
Pohlmeier fears for the lives of the people in Ukraine. That’s why he says: “Arms deliveries can prolong the suffering of the people.” They could lead to the current conflict lasting longer and even expanding. That’s why he’s of the opinion: “The only solution is a diplomatic one.”
Hofreiter also believes that peace talks must be held at the end of the war. In his view, however, it is too early for that now. “Who do you want to negotiate with?” he asks Pohlmeier. Ukraine tried to hold peace talks with Russia, but Russian President Putin was not interested.
“Our strategy is: We strengthen Ukraine’s defense capability so that it can withstand the aggressor. At the same time, we tighten the embargo so that costs rise for Russia and so that the regime is ready to negotiate. It doesn’t help that we are here agree that we should negotiate. The problem is that Putin is not ready to negotiate.”
“Need to find mediator”
However, Hofreiter Pohlmeier cannot convince with this argument. “I fear that Ukraine cannot win the war because at the end of the day Russia has a nuclear option,” he says. Pohlmeier is also clear: negotiations with the Russian President are currently not possible. “But there has to be a solution where you have to find a mediator, and you have to be creative there.” Such a mediator must be neutral. As a result, the federal government is canceled because of the arms deliveries from Germany.
However, in recent weeks there have been attempts at mediation by Israel and Turkey. They too had been unsuccessful. But that’s no reason for Pohlmeier not to keep trying. “I wish the Ukrainians that they can live in peace, freedom and democracy. What I see in Ukraine upsets me as a doctor,” says the doctor. You can clearly see his desperation. There are situations during the show where he almost bursts into tears. “We say: More diplomacy instead of more weapons,” emphasizes Pohlmeier.
“Reconsider your attitude”
Hofreiter can understand Pohlmeier’s attitude. He’s a pacifist, and so was Hofreiter. But now he says: “You also have to rethink your own attitude.” If Western countries stopped supporting Ukraine, the military would no longer be able to defend it. Russia would occupy Ukraine, the Russian army would commit more war crimes. The war would spread to other countries. And countries like China could follow Putin’s example. “We have to support Ukraine in such a way that Putin is ready for serious negotiations,” says Hofreiter. “Unfortunately, we can only achieve that with weapons. I would also wish for something else. But I can’t bake an aggressor.”
A serious solution to the problem was not to be expected in this broadcast. Hofreiter’s arguments seem logical, but in the end one cannot ignore Pohlmeier’s views either. Both are worried – about the people in Ukraine, about the people in Germany.
That becomes clear when Pohlmeier asks the crucial question that Hofreiter cannot answer either: “I believe that Putin is a person who will not give in. What war can Ukraine win if the country is totally devastated in the end?” That’s why Pohlmeier sees no alternative to quick peace negotiations. “And if it hasn’t worked in the past, then you have to try again and again.”