INTERVIEW. Senator (PS) Jérôme Durain followed the demonstrations of 1er May in Paris as an observer within a Brav and testifies to his experience.
By Théo Sauvignet
© MAXIME GRUSS / Hans Lucas / Hans Lucas via AFP
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Ihe challenge started with a bravado by Gérald Darmanin during a hearing at the Law Commission at the beginning of April: certain parliamentarians criticizing the violent action of the police, the Minister of the Interior had enjoined them to go and see the reality on the ground. The senator (PS) of Saône-et-Loire Jérôme Durain therefore spent the day of 1er May embarked with a unit of Brav (brigade for the repression of violent action), in Paris. During this mobilization, 108 members of the security forces were injured according to the Ministry of the Interior, including 25 in the capital. Among them, a police officer seriously burned by a Molotov cocktail.
Accustomed to demonstrations for more than thirty years, working regularly on the subject of law enforcement and having already embarked with the BAC, Jérôme Durain took up the challenge. ” It is very impressive. I readily admit that I was scared at times,” he admits. The senator also insists on the fact that his testimony is incomplete and in no way claims to give a representative view of all the events that occurred during the demonstration. Even if he recognizes that “the maintenance of order deserves a less caricatural debate”.
Point : Do you think the unit you were following held back because of your presence?
Jerome Durain: From what I perceived, I don’t think so. I had no referent to follow me and make sure of what I was doing, I even lost them at one point. The group often did their work in the background, in the parallel streets, without particularly worrying about me… They didn’t have only that to do. I saw injured police officers next to me, and the group received all kinds of projectiles, from hammers to cobblestones, from pieces of benches or fences to fireworks. Anyway, it was the perfect opportunity to discuss with the police, on the ground, to have their perception.
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For example, I was able to discuss with a member of the hierarchy on the question of the LBD (defense ball launcher, or “flash-ball”). He explained to me that, personally, he considered the risk-benefit ratio of the use of this weapon rather bad and therefore did not favor it in his unit. Regarding the individual identification number, the RIO, members of my unit wore it before the start of the demonstration, others did not. Then the commotion started, and scrutinizing my neighbors’ chests wasn’t really a priority anymore. I know that the department has started to address this problem, but I cannot judge the results in general.
Has your concept of policing changed? Do you have any suggestions to make?
As I am already somewhat familiar with these issues, my perception of policing has changed little between before and after. I was simply able to realize the level of violence received by the police. This experience will now feed my thoughts as a parliamentarian. I do not pretend to give lessons, I will not use this experience to legitimize proposals, that is not the goal.
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Above all, the question deserves a less caricatural debate to address the real problems. We must not fall each time into deprivations of liberty or the extension of repressive powers to respond to violence. The subject that matters here is to restore the republican order and above all a police force in which we have confidence. The police were applauded after the attacks, and 70% of French people have confidence in them, but that is crumbling.
Can the repression of the police be justified by the violence of the actions brought against them?
It should be specified that I condemn without the slightest difficulty the thugs, who are people who have nothing to do in the political fight led in demonstration. There is no equality between the violence of radical groups acting outside the law and that of the police, the guarantor of republican order. But we are a little in the law of retaliation. I think it’s a problem of operational management, we saw it with the problem of the traps which gave rise to many debates. I have the impression that we are a little out of this method.
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In any case, we must succeed in questioning our practice of maintaining order. I don’t think that France is the last bastion of ultras and thugs in Europe, I don’t think that violence is more particularly inscribed in the genome of the French than others, and our police forces don’t are a priori no dumber than those of our neighbours. It is a question of being part of a logic of de-escalation by taking inspiration from what is being done elsewhere, which is not exactly what we are seeing at the moment.